Thread:Wazzirving/@comment-61371-20120303161509/@comment-2051886-20120306032528

First off, thank you for at least giving me the chance to argue my perspective. You make great points, but you were off on a couple, that may not be important to our discussion. I wasn't talking about Kang with the whole "...a character goes to another place, has a different name, and changes their personality, then they deserve a page dedicated to their brief moment of difference". I was talking about Bishop in the AoA and the entire cast of AoX, excluding Revelation. Each of those is the same character that simply went somewhere else, changed their names and personality and got a separate page for it. Like I said, those scenarios are the same as an Avenger going back in time and being brainwashed to believe he is a villain and getting a page. I was saying that we freely give those scenarios a separate page, but don't recognize a separate being, because they have a similar origin to their original counterpart. Everyone of them has a similar origin to their original also, because they are the original.

I agree with the need for separating Kangs, but believe that, for the same reasons, we need to differentiate the Rachels.

Also, Mother Askani never "...return to Rachel's original form...". With no offense to your intelligence, maybe you don't understand what happened to her. The run-in with the timestream literally sent one of her to one point in time and another to a different point, simultaneously. While one Rachel was fighting Apocalypse and his order, the other was a prisoner. When Mother Askani died, she stayed dead. Her returning to her younger form was simply a choice, because, in one book she stated, that is when she felt the most confident. It was merely a mental illusion. Mother Askani could, and has, possibly still talked to Cable from the Astral Plane, as she is Omega Level Mutant and we know they never die, but live-on in the Astral Plane (Shadow King and Madelyne Pryor-Summers). Bishop was restored to his original body, but Mother Askani is still dead in the far distant future. Marvel Girl has no recollection of ever being Mother Askani. It was just a writer's preference to "bring her back" and that is why I said we should watch our backs for future problems with this. We have only been shown two Rachels that were in the timestream. It would take nothing to go to another time and see another Rachel that was sent to said timeline at the exact time Mother Askani and Rachel Grey were sent to theirs and so on.

You're right that she came-out of Gaunt's prison calling herself Rachel Summers, but she immediately gained an alias to attend college and, just to clean it up, she adopted "Rachel Grey" in UXM 444, after the heated baseball game. The next issue, she decided on Marvel Girl and XTXM was cancelled by then. I think you misunderstood again. I was responding to Ed believing that she did not change her name, like the cast of AoX. They kept their real names, but changed their code names. Rachel changed both, true, not right out of the timestream, but none-the-less still changed her name. I wasn't so much focused on the "when", but the fact that she did.

I didn't mean ALL of the Kangs. I thought I made it clear that I believed Immortus and Iron Lad made conscious decisions to be different and were excluded from the "Kangs" that I brought-up.

Also, don't forget that Illyana's page has three Illyana's. Original Illyana died during the Inferno, where she went back in time and brought back her younger self. That younger self that died of the Legacy Virus was not the original. I don't know her Earth designation, but it isn't 616. The third one is the one you brought-up.

In the end, it seems you don't want it because there is no evidence that she is not the original Rachel. I honestly can't provide that because it does not exist, but just like with Mother Askani, there is no guarantee that when Rachel Grey dies, we won't learn an elaborate story of another Rachel out there. If it was 10 years ago, we would have called Mother Askani "Rachel Summers (Earth-811)" and been wrong. With the timesplit deal, like Kang and his counterparts, we have no idea which Rachel this is and separating them makes it so we aren't forced to figure out which Rachel incarnation this is. Yes, they have the same pasts, but they are going to. That is not a reason to call another page "unneeded".