Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25734102-20141121005627/@comment-4651179-20141127004200

No. Nope. You're still not getting it. And not, I'm not contradicting myself.

I am certain a Patriot book would be a flop because it has happened before to other characters. It's a truth that happens in the market, I even gave you clear examples of other characters who have failed. Not even B-listers have it easy, you can't expect someone like Patriot being successful.

Ms. Marvel is one example in an endless sea of failed new characters. Ms. Marvel sold particularly well because it had something extremely different to offer. And you're clearly misinterpreting something. When a comic goes to a new print, it's because the comic shops didn't order enough issues of it. If a new comic appears and the comic shops order only 100 copies of it, and people want more, it will get a second printing. Probably all the comics printed in these new printings are the same number of comics an issue of Amazing Spider-Man could have ordered. A comic going to new printings doesn't particularly reflect success, it only reflects that it was more successful that the market expected it to be. That could perfectly be that the market expected it to sell 1,000 copies and it sold 2,000.

And you should also stop accusing me of not being able to know if Patriot would sell when you're giving me almost zero evidence in favor of a successful Patriot book.

And there's a reason why a new Black Panther series would sell well. A very, very good reason.

I explained why it made sense Sam took over the mantle. You could actually give me some reason why it would make sense Patriot or Miss America took over the mantle. Why would two characters barely related to Steve Rogers be trusted to become Captain America? Why would one of them which is retired become Captain America? Because so far, you only told me "it made more sense," but never "and here's why..."

And now you're saying making a new Thor is lame because is a second rate version of the original when you want a new Captain America, which is not lame because...? So, making a new version of a new character varies on quality depending the character? Or is it if the new version is female? Why would it be more better if a new version of a character was black than if it was female?

You proved its not the fact there is a new captain america is a lame, but the way they have presented the new captain america that makes the change lame, and it a compete shame they passed over other choices (Patriot, Miss America) that make a lot more sense. The problem with Thor is just a gender swapping which isn't the same as making and presenting a strong, female character. Its makinga 2nd rate version of the original. Its the same reason Patriot becoming a bigger part of the Marvel Universe is better then a new Captain America.

And again, like I previously said. Ms. Marvel is only one (1) good example in an endless sea of failed new characters. And do you know exactly how successful Ms. Marvel is? Her series ranks approximately 100th in Diamond's comic charts. Selling barely above the 30,000 units. That's not a success-success. That's not Spider-Man's 100,000 units. Captain America's 75,000 units, or Guardians of the Galaxy's 60,000 units.

And I don't really know why are you telling me something like this: "A higher profile Captain Marvel, Miss America or new character has a chance to become a popular, top tier character in her own right, a gender swapped Thor will always just be Lady Thor. Falcon will always be Falcon, even if he is in a Cap. costume. Patriot or Miss America in that spot has the chance to be something new and different and popular instead of ....Falcon."

Don't you realize that I'm totally in favor and I support lesser known characters? You're still mistaking the state of the market I mention with my own opinion.

You can stop telling me how Marvel has great female and minority heroes. I know that. I support that. I would love if Storm sold as much as Captain America, or if Black Widow sold as much as Avengers. And I'm already telling you, the reason why Marvel doesn't push them to be top tiers is because they already have done that and it didn't happen. Carol Danvers was made Captain Marvel in 2012, her status was elevated. The launch of her new series was pretty big, I read her new series, Carol became part of my top 10 of favorite characters, but in the end, the consumers are the ones who make a character a success or a failure.

Like I told you, Marvel can't go around stores telling people to buy Elektra instead of Captain America, and trust me, Marvel has put a lot of effort in the series for lesser known characters. Have you seen the artwork of books like Elektra, Black Widow, or Moon Knight? Not to mention the excellent writing in all of them, and other books.

And you know what other thing is "bollocks"? The concept that new characters can sell.

And you keep telling that Falcon is bad characterized, I guess you're better reviewer than CBR or Newsarama, who have given All-New Captain America excellent reviews. And why is it any different Falcon leading the Avengers than Patriot leading the Avengers? Is it because you want one of them and the other not?

And again, and again. This new Thor is not merely a Thor with uterus. So far, her new series has been acclaimed. I like her new series. But you keep not being able to grasp that a comic is not only made from a character but also a story. We have a female Thor while the old Thor is running around with the Avengers. But we have a new Thor learning to become Thor, while the old Thor has to grasp that he's no longer worthy and find a place now that he's unworthy. Not only that, but there's also the two mysteries of who the new Thor is and what happened to Odinson.

And it's ignorant to say they show lack of creativity. You know why? Because creativity means doing something new. Isn't this the first time Thor has become unworthy? Isn't this the first time a woman is Thor? Isn't this the first time Falcon is a full-fledged Captain America? Yes. It's the first time those things happen.

And even if those books "reek" of stunt writing, they showed so far the ability to also deliver excellent writing.

But of course, in the end of the day, those best seller, popular, and critically acclaimed books are bad because they are not what you want. You need to appreciate that something not being what you want doesn't make it bad.

I don't want Iron Man to be evil, whoever, I'm enjoying Superior Iron Man. You look like one of millions of fans who hate on books like babies just because Marvel hasn't called them to write their books.