Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25734102-20141121005627/@comment-4651179-20141125233615

That was before. Time changes. Now it's even harder to sell as good as the already-established good sellers. The X-Men were cancelled for some years, Hulk's first series was canned after 6 issues, Iron Man became bi-monthly until Michelinie, Layton and Romita Jr. took over, Batman was almost cancelled in the 50s. But those were other times, the popularity of heroes varied. Now it doesn't, there are already established best sellers like Spider-Man or Batman and no matter how appealing, or how good the book is, it won't sell as much as those two I mentioned (as an example). New heroes are harder to appeal to the casual fan. Heck, during Brand New Day, the new status quo for Spider-Man was bashed by fans, but it still sold well enough because you already know people will buy it.

As an example, Hawkeye's popularity increased, with an excellet book. However, he's more of a "cult" character. Nowadays, an excellent book featuring a lesser known character (or characters) will still sell less than Spider-Man's title even if it's written by a goat and drawn by a monkey. The last two Defenders series were critical success, but were cancelled. Superior Foes of Spider-Man has its final issue coming out tomorrow.

The current status of numerous books in modernity can be perfectly represented with an actual in-comic quote from New Warriors, an incredibly good book with likable characters and funny moments, it had a strong fanbase, but not a big one, so its final issue is coming out tomorrow: "And in a world with the Avengers, I'm not sure there's a place for us."

This quote pretty much explains why so many lesser know characters strive to survive. We're living in a world in which Avengers, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Batman, etc. are not big names. They're giant names. Lesser known characters have barely place in the market because they will never fit the standards of the buyers. If an Avengers book sells 100,000 copies and a Defenders book sells 20,000. What's the best for Marvel? To keep Defenders or cancel it and release All-New Uncanny Mighty Secret Avengers?

That's the thing. Patriot wouldn't sell because other characters still more known than him have failed. War Machine can't sustain a series, Scarlet Spider can't, Elektra can't, Punisher always had hard times, Blade can't. Even the Fantastic Four are getting cancelled because of sales. People might tell you it's because of the whole FOX deal. But for a reason there are still like five X-Men titles. Even the Fantastic Four have hard times to keeping up with the Avengers world.

I could ask you the same, to prove me Patriot would sell. How is a C-list super hero, who's basically a different version of an A-lister going to sell? War Machine has this problem. He's a B-lister, but for the casual readers, he doesn't have much to offer other than a black and grey Iron Man suit. One of the last times they tried to give him a series they called it "Iron Man 2.0," and not even under the direct shadow of Iron Man during the popularity of Iron Man 2 it could sell.

I used Sif and Valkyrie as examples because a lot of people were disgruntled that Marvel was making a new female Asgardian and making her Thor instead of pushing already-existing Asgardian female heroes.

And as I said, the comic also has to serve a purpose for the story. Patriot is retired, because two of his closest friends died in battle. They can't just make him ignore the suffering, specially when there are other heroes available. By asking why can't Patriot stop being retired you're presenting a probability (that of Patriot being Captain America) with the basis of another probability (that of Patriot being active).

They are going for top tier minority characters. However, they won't make all of their top-tiers minority characters out of the blue. It's a process that needs time. They can't also force people to buy and want minority characters. There won't be a Marvel sales guys in front of every comic book store telling costumers "Hey, wouldn't you prefer Luke Cage instead of Iron Man?"

And you are absolutely wrong on the "lame stories" thing. Like I said, there has only been one issue of Sam Wilson's ongoing series, the one in which the main story considering his new position will be unfold, as well as what will be of Steve Rogers. Have you even read Thor? Jason Aaron is a great writer, and he's the same writer that made male Thor one of many people's favorites since Marvel NOW!. Only two issues have come out, you don't have the right to judge a story which barely began. It's like leaving the theater only one minute after the title screen appeared. I would even support the new Thor more than the new Captain America. Because there are now two different stories unfold. The new Thor's story, featuring the mystery of who she is (I got to know who she is, and it's promosing to make an excellent story), and the unworthy Thor's story, featuring the mystery of why did he stop being worthy.

You might think Patriot beoming Captain America would be a better story, but how do you know you're not the only one? They might be better from your perspective, but not for the entire consumer market. And again, Blue Marvel is unfortunately just a C-lister. I don't see him appealing to new readers because he's on the surface just a black Superman. And they just can't force him becoming a top-tier.

You have to understand that they can't just turn minority heroes into top-tiers. They're turning top-tiers into minorities because is the best way to begin diversifying comics. It's different to make Captain America a black man than to make Luke Cage as popular as Cap, being the latter option a lot harder.

Again, you have no right to tell whether these are good stories or not, considering they just started. And even less right considering both All-New Captain America and Thor have had critically acclaimed issues. Did you know CBR gave All-New Cap #1 5 stars out of 5?

Probably what you need to do is to become unbiased towards this titles. Because so far, you gave me the impression that they're "lame" and "poorly told" stories just because they're not the ones you wanted.