Board Thread:Questions and Answers/@comment-61022-20160330220251/@comment-61022-20160401151507

Pokemonmewtwos wrote: I have read the Handbook, thank you very much. The Handbook says, and I quote, "Originally separate domains, one similar to Earth-616 ruled by Iron Man (Tony Stark) and the other similar to Earth-1610 ruled by Nick Fury, the two accidentally merged when the latter's Tony Stark accidentally agitated a rip in reality.

This clearly states separate domains, not realities.

And every domain is from a different reality, or chunks of different realities. Which as is clearly established from reading the rest of the entire entry on Battleworld, are all comprised of different dimensions. Also you are also cherry picking here: The body of the text states "similar to Earth-616" and "similar to Earth-1610" on top of "separate domains". Similar to Earth-616/1610 not ARE Earth-616/1610.

So what exactly is your point? Other than needlessly complicating how we organize this?

It's pretty straight forward:

Because of all the glaring inconsistencies (characters who are dead being alive again: IE: 616-Tony Stark, 1610-Captain America, 616-Cyclops, etc) the multiple instances where characters are wearing OLDER costumes (Stark again immediately comes to mind) they should be considered alternates and not the original 616 and 1610 characters.

Until we get written confirmation that all of the characters involved recalling the events of this story, then we have to assume they are alternates. We have a reality designation. We plop them all in the same reality designation 61610.

The best example to show how situations like this is when you look at how they dealt with Thundra. She is from Femazonia or Earth-715. That reality was merged with Machus Earth-74101 creating a merged reality of Earth-7412. Earth-715 and 74101 no longer exist when those realities were merged. Since then Thundra has returned to her "own" reality, but it's actually an identical reality similar to the unmerged it is a different reality designated Earth-8009. She also ended up on a world where she took over the merged Femazonia/Machus designated Earth-8763.

So in this case, you have a reality that is based on Earth-616 and another based on Earth-1610. They were merged because of the mutual Starks dimensional portals.

As for your concerns regarding the All-New X-Men that are present... Editorial wise, on this Wiki, we assign all time travel characters from alternate possible futures, alternate realities, or whatever, that appear IN an alternate reality, are organized as though they belong to THAT reality. It's easier to organize those characters that way and stops us from needlessly creating TRNs for one-off or short lived characters. See nearly any alternate version of Bishop, Stryfe, or Kang. It's also based on the fact that we CANNOT assume that these characters are from alternate realities outside the confines of the reality they are existing. For all we know the Bishop of Earth-12, actually comes from the future of Earth-12 and no divergence takes place. Unless a handbook specifically states that the Bishop on Earth-12 actually belongs to another reality he stays at an Earth-12 designation.

The reason we do this, as I've said earlier, is so we're not creating needless TRNs that will never get updated again, because by and large these characters will likely never be seen again.

So for the All-New X-Men, it would be better to have Scott Summers (Young-616) (Earth-61610) and Scott Summers (Old-616) (Earth-61610). Because in the merged reality of Earth-61610 we CANNOT assume that they came from an alternate past of the "similar to Earth-616" reality the belong in. By the same token, the X-Men pulled forward in time in X-Tinction Agenda should also be listed as reality Earth-24201 (I believe it was Thunderbird, Banshee and Wolverine who were pulled forward in time in that reality) because we can't just assume they were pulled from an alternate past either.

Now, how does this all play into everything? What if characters remember events of Ultimate End after the fact? Unless they have specific recollection of those events, we cannot assume that is the case.

That said, and even then, because they have recollection also does not mean that these characters don't deserve separate pages. Because a reality that has existed STILL existed. As seen in Contest of Champions Earth-61610 still endured after Secret Wars. As such it stands to reason that all those characters existed in a merged reality and thus need their own separate profiles. Since Earth-61610 is the only reality number we're given (and it's clear that they are not Earth-616 and Earth-1610) then these characters are all classified under that reality index because we have no other to go by. Just like all the other examples I listed above.

NOW... Assuming that there are characters running around on Earth-616 presently that have memories of the events of Ultimate End (other than Old Man Logan, because he was from another domain) then it's simply a matter of two alternate characters existing in the same body.

There are countless instances of this happening. Two immediately come to mind:

Earth-58163 - The House of M is a prefect example of this: Although it originally took over Earth-616 and the Earth-616 heroes technically lived there until their true memories were restored and reality was returned to normal and still retain their memories of the House of M reality warp, Earth-58163 still endures with the Earth-58163 versions of those characters.

Earth-8591 - Kulan Gath replaced Manhattan with a Hyborian era version of itself and its heroes. Although reality was restored to normal and the heroes involved in that conflict remember what happened, Earth-8591 still endures and the characters that appeared therein still exist.

Earth-295 - Is another great example. When the Age of Apocalypse was created Bishop became stuck in the past of this alternate reality because he was time displaced himself already. We classify him as Earth-295 and he gets a separate profile because he goes on to "prevent" the AOA from existing, sacrificing his life to stop Legion. While Bishop-1191 still retained memories of his time on the Age of Apocalypse, they were two distinct and separate characters at the moment of divergence when Xavier was killed.

Based on all this previously established evidence, it's clear that a distinction needs to be made in the way I have outlined. My standpoint is not only based on my interpretation of the one paragraph, but also based on previously established standards of the Wiki as well as countless examples where the similar circumstances have occurred. That's how you do research my friend.