User blog:LoveWaffle/Amazing Spider-Man 2 Idea (because it's the hot thing to do)

In the past few weeks, I've noticed that its become kind of popular to post your ideas about what The Amazing Spider-Man 2, or whatever its name will be, will entail. I've seen some of these posts, such as the one by UltimateBub and the one by Hman11, and they're pretty good. But given how much of an opinionated ass I am, I decided to get a few of my ideas down to see what the "community" thinks of them. Unlike the other blog posts, I won't present an entire run-down of the movie, rather I'll just post some ideas with a few specifics here and there.

Keep it Different
The big thing that hurt The Amazing Spider-Man both critically and at the box office (although a 73% RT Score and over $250 million domestic are nothing to be ashamed of) is the cynicism over the Spider-Man franchise being rebooted so quickly. In that sense, TASM2 and any other sequels need to keep doing what the first did and try to be as different from the original series as possible. In simplest terms, this means leaving out a bunch of key characters from Raimi's films - Mary Jane, Harry Osborn, Jameson, and any of the major villains from the previous series (with an exception, but I'll bring that up later). Instead, this new franchise needs to stick to characters that either haven't been done before or really got the shaft in the old series. If TASM2 uses any of those characters, it's only inviting the audience to make comparisons to the other series, which is the last thing the people behind the film should want to happen.

Leave In the Norman, Take Out the Goblin
All though it may look it, this isn't the exception I was talking about. The reason for that is I want a completely different take on the Norman Osborn character than Willem Dafoe's. While I personally enjoyed Dafoe's Osborn, I recognize there has been a lot of criticism hurled at the character. Some say that his performance was too goofy (which I see), others claim the Goblin costume made him look too much like a Power Rangers villain. However, these criticisms all boil down to the same thing: the Green Goblin is problematic. He's an inherently goofy/campy character who can't really be adapted without maintaining some of those qualities. After all, the character is a green elf that flies around on a bat and throws pumpkins at people. However, we then run into the problem that TASM built up Norman Osborn to be a major figure in the next few films. How then does The Amazing Spider-Man 2 adapt the character in a way that is both fresh to the audience and avoids the mistakes of the previous attempt at the character?



The answer's actually pretty simple - No Green Goblin. One of the things the recent explosion of super hero/comic book films that started with, fittingly enough, 2002's Spider-Man has been missing has been a James Bond-style villain. I'll explain: Many of the most famous Bond villains either a) weren't the main physical threat in the movie or b) were a henchman for another villain. In fact, Goldfinger, considered the best of the 22 Bond films, follows this formula - the main villain of the film is the titular Auric Goldfinger, but the main physical threat (the one we really want to see Bond fight) is the imposing Oddjob. So far, the closest we've gotten to this kind of a set-up was 2003's X2, where the main villain was William Cox's Col. Stryker while the one the main physical threat is Kelly Hu's Deathstrike, although The Avengers did get close to this with Loki and the Chitauri. I want TASM2's Norman Osborn to be like Goldfinger, like Stryker, like Luthor even. He's a powerful, manipulative villain, but you won't be seeing him throw a punch.

There is only one actor I can see playing this version of Norman Osborn: Jason Isaacs. You might know him better as Lucius Malfoy from the Harry Potter films, Col. Tavington from The Patriot, and, if you want a taste of his American accent, Admiral Zhao from the first season of Avatar: The Last Airbender or Det. Michael Britten from the NBC's short-lived Awake. He's a great actor known for playing some sinister, twisted characters, and he's long overdue for a role in a superhero film (yes, he did some voice work for DCUOAM films where he played Sinestro and Ra's al Ghul, but I'm talking about theatrical releases). Just as importantly, he looks the part. While I'll offer some suggestions for who should play other characters, this is the only one I'm adamant about.

Black Suit Redux
This is the exception I was talking about earlier. As much as TASM built up Norman Osborn, I feel they're building up Venom even more. For one, there's the inclusion of Richard Parker using the Ultimate origin of the character as a scientist as opposed to the regular origin where he's a secret agent killed by the Red Skull.. But there's also the line in TASM about Norman dying or being in poor health or something of the sort, which is consistent with Venom's Ultimate origin as a cure for cancer, developed by Richard Parker no less. Venom is the only supervillain from Raimi's series that should be brought back for the rebooted films for one simple reason: the version of Venom we got out of Spider-Man 3 is universally reviled. In other words, Venom deserves a second shot. Overwhelmingly, the major problem people had with Venom in Spider-Man 3 was how little of him there actually was. He finally showed up at the end of the film for only a few minutes, spent much of that time with his face exposed, and, to make matters worse, all of that followed the cringe-worthiest moment in recent memory known as Emo Peter. So how does TASM2 adapt Venom without making the same mistakes Spider-Man 3 did? Like Norman Osborn, the answer is to separate the characters. Part of the problem with Venom's treatment in SM3 originates in that he was shoehorned in. Sony forced Raimi to include the Black Suit when his original idea for the film largely involved Sandman and Harry as the new Goblin. Venom was never supposed to be there in the first place. The rebooted Spider-Man films now has an advantage that Raimi's films did not - time. Peter in the Black Suit and Eddie Brock as Venom should be in two different movies, with TASM2 focusing on the former. In fact, TASM2 should be an adaptation of the Black Suit storyline while leaving out Eddie Brock as Venom. However, don't leave out Eddie Brock entirely. He has to be a major supporting character in this film so he could be the primary antagonist of The Amazing Spider-Man 3. During the course of the film, he should be Peter's lab parter at university (to resemble the relationship between their fathers from the comics) or something of the sort, and over the course of the film have the two friends slowly become enemies - from a friendly rivalry to a romantic rivalry to an even more heated competitive rivalry to and out-and-out hatred. Another way to look at it is he should be similar to the version of Harry Osborn in Raimi's films. I have no idea who should play him, but he needs to be from Hollywood's younger talent, someone close to Emma Stone's age.

The movie should begin with a heist at OsCorp. The thieves are stealing some "high value" item from the company for Don Fortunato so he can exchange it for some sophisticated weaponry (or the item is the sophisticated weaponry, but it's the same regardless). However, not long after the thieves hand over the item to the Mafia does Spider-Man show up and does his whole "beat up the bad guys" routine, and for added effect one of the gangsters could be the guy who killed Uncle Ben. It's then revealed that the item taken from OsCorp is the Symbiote, which soon bonds with Peter. As Peter is invigorated by the new Black Suit, he gradually becomes corrupted by it - being more violent when dealing with criminals, being more assertive in his relationships (while still avoiding the awkwardness of SM3's Emo Peter). Meanwhile, Norman Osborn hires and outfits a mercenary to retrieve the Black Suit (his cure for cancer, developed by Richard Parker) at all costs.

Oddjob
If Norman Osborn is the film's Goldfinger, than that mercenary is his Oddjob. First of all, this wouldn't be Michael Massee's "man in shadows", as I just see him as an aide to Osborn and doesn't have to be derived from the comics. After all, the last time Massee played a comic book character on the silver screen, Brandon Lee died. As to exactly who this mercenary is, there's a few options that I would find reasonable, and I listed them below in decending order of who I think would work. I'll get into them individually, but there's a few qualities they all need to share: 1. They all need to be able to hunt down Spider-Man 2. The character does not need to have a deep backstory (and probably shouldn't) 3. The character's actions need to lead to Gwen Stacy dying at the end of the movie Keep in mind that any combination of these characters could be used as well. I'm not saying a full Sinister Six, but if Scott Pilgrim vs. the World was successfully able to get its lead to fight Seven Evil Ex's, then I don't see why the film would need to be limited to only one of these villains.

Hobgoblin
This is the one I want to see most. "But Green Goblin needs to be introduced first!" you're probably all thinking to yourselves right now. Wrong - This version of the character should stick closely to incarnation of the Hobgoblin from the 90's cartoon, probably the best version of the character to date (including the ones from the comics). For those unaware, this version of the character was introduced long before the Green Goblin was as an assassin hired by Norman Osborn to kill Wilson Fisk. His identity was left a mystery for much of the series, he eventually double crossed Norman Osborn, and, perhaps best of all, was voiced by Mark Hamill (in his Joker voice). He's perfect for this role in the film: He's a legitimate threat, he doesn't need that much of a backstory (and probably shouldn't get one), he's inherently tied to Norman Osborn, and, perhaps most importantly, he can easily fill in for the Green Goblin during the death of Gwen Stacy.

The downside to using him is that he could end up being too similar to Heath Ledger's Joker, which is a comparison he's bound to lose. That version of the Joker was a past-less super criminal/domestic terrorist who gets hired by a bunch of mob bosses to take down Batman...sub in "Spider-Man" for Batman and you've essentially got this version of the Hobgoblin. I can't say exactly what the Hobgoblin costume should look like, only that it should look like battle armor, like something you'd expect someone to wear into a combat zone with a tan base. The mask shouldn't be ridiculous like the Goblin Mask Willem Dafoe wore, but should be something practical. As for the name, don't even bring it up. Maybe "H.O.B." could be an acronym for the name of the suit or something, but the word "Hobgoblin" never needs to be used in the film. The original Spider-Man trilogy got around the villains' campy names by making them monikers Jameson would give them for his paper; however, Jameson is not a character in my version of TASM2.

Since the Hobgoblin will be masked for most of the film, the actor who plays him needs to have an imposing, memorable voice. Although there are many options, I think I'd prefer Kiefer Sutherland for the role, but I'm open to ideas. Maybe Mark Hamill could reprise the role (although change the voice)?

Scorpion
Another possibility is Scorpion. First of all, he's one of Spider-Man's most dangerous foes, even defeating the wall-crawler in their first encounter. Secondly, like the version of Hobgoblin I described, Mac Gargan is someone for hire. In the comics, it was Jameson that hired him to get rid of Spider-Man, however, I don't think changing his origin to put him in Norman Osborn's employ is that big of a deal. Furthermore, his origin is more closely related to some of the sci-fi themes from TASM, namely the whole cross-species genetics that gave Peter Parker & Dr. Connors their powers. He's a logical successor to the Lizard, right?

It's in that last bit that we get a problem. Scorpion is simply too similar to the version of the Lizard that we got in the last film. They're both the results of cross-species genetics, they're both very powerful and weirdly acrobatic characters, and, perhaps worst of all, they sort of look alike. In other words, Spider-Man fighting the Scorpion might look too much like a re-hashing of the fights in the first film. That being said, Mac Gargan opens a possibility that the Hobgoblin does not. At the end of the film, when the Black Suit leaves Peter, it could briefly bond with Gargan during for the film's climax. This allows the new series to in a way work in the four different people that wore the Venom suit (Angelo Fortunato being represented by his father, who stole the thing in the first place). On a different note, I really don't know who should play him. I'd say someone like Chris Evans, but he's busy elsewhere being a superhero.

Others
The only other two I see working well are Kraven and Shocker, both of whom would fill the same role. Neither really needs to be elaborated on (they can just simply be dropped in and we get what they are), which would be the best option if the film is already too cluttered by the addition of Norman Osborn, Eddie Brock, and the Black Suit while still trying to maintain Gwen and Aunt May in supporting roles. This version of Kraven would simply be a very skilled hunter without the superhuman formula/genetics tampering or whatever it was that gives Kraven his abilities in the comics, while Shocker would just be a thug whose costume and weapons are technology developed by OsCorp. Although I wouldn't be as excited to see these two on screen as I would Hobgoblin or Scorpion, I wouldn't be too upset. Neither character needs a talented actor behind them, so they could easily go to a stuntman of some sorts. I have a problem with other popular options, such as Rhino, Mysterio, Vulture, etc. Many, like Rhino or Vulture, are too campy and/or gimicky to really work well. Others, like Mysterio or Electro, are simply too ridiculous to actually work well. Chameleon, on the other hand, can't pose as much a threat as the Hobgoblin et al, but I suppose he could work in a very minor fashion. I could of course be wrong, but this is just my gut feeling about them. As I said earlier, I don't want to see Doc Ock or Sandman show up again simply because they were already done (and done well, I might add) in the Raimi films, and Carnage isn't a possibility since Venom would need to be done before he's introduced. The only character I'd really like to see that I know is impossible is the Punisher. Most people forget that Frank Castle started out as a Spider-Man villain hired specifically to find and kill Spider-Man. Frankly, the Punisher's previous cinematic outings have been disappointments, so why not try something different and make him an antagonist to another hero (as he often is)?

What we're left with for TASM3
First, I want to start off with this: the final moments of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 need to be the symbiote bonding with Eddie Brock. We see him struggling with the thing, everything gets calm, and then Venom lunges at the screen mouth-first (like he's swallowing the audience, if I'm not getting my point across). Roll Credits. It not only sets him up as the villain for the next film, but also gets the audience excited about seeing him again. From there, Venom needs to terrorize Peter throughout the film. It could be not only physical, but also psychological. Go into that both Brock and the symbiote want him dead, want their revenge (for whatever). Unlike Spider-Man 3, TASM3 needs to hammer home that Venom is the most dangerous villain he's ever fought and probably the most dangerous he'll ever fight. Venom is the culmination of everything he's done up to this point in his life.

Also remember that, at this point, Gwen Stacy is dead. She dies near the end of TASM2 during Spider-Man's final confrontation to whomever Norman Osborn's Oddjob is. And keep it similar to the comics - although it's the villain's fault that she dies, it's ultimately Peter's actions that result in her death. So he has to deal with this throughout the movie, and, if they want to expand a bit on Venom's abilities, make him take on Gwen's face from time to time like the Ultimate version of Carnage does. Again, it brings back that Venom is the culmination of everything Peter's done as Spider-Man.

For a final note, I want to bring up how I think TASM3 should end, as should the entire franchise (limiting the number of films here to 3). Throughout the third film, and perhaps the second as well if Peter doesn't let anyone know he's still dating Gwen, we need to get this interaction: Then, at the end of the film, after Peter's defeated Venom and the day has been saved and whatever BS happens during their showdown, Aunt May mentions that the neighbor's granddaughter is here to see him. He shows dis-interest, and then Aunt May opens the door to reveal Mary Jane (played by some knockout model or whatnot who only needs to deliver one line). She says the "Face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot" line, cut back to a headshot of Peter, he smirks, roll credits. Post-credit scene: Flash Thompson (who re-appears at the start of the film after coming back from Afghanistan with no legs) is called into some military board room and is offered the opportunity of a life time. Cut to reveal a small piece of the Symbiote that survived the climactic showdown at the end of the film, and there's your Venom spin-off. Audience applauds, everyone goes home and says the one thing Raimi wanted them to say at the end of Spider-Man 3: "That didn't suck"
 * PP: [Walks into Aunt May's house exhausted after fighting some crooks]
 * AM: You know, Peter, me and the neighbor were talking and we want to set you up with her granddaughter.
 * PP: [Apathetic] Sure thing, Aunt May.
 * AM: You two will get along so well! She has a great personality.  (Side note: We all know what "great personality" is code for).Mary Jane Watson (Earth-616).jpg

LoveWaffle (talk) 17:02, August 24, 2012 (UTC)