Thread:Nausiated/@comment-4651179-20150223173949/@comment-26066818-20150227160946

First, you aren't the only person here who has read every appearance of Immortus, so let's not make this a "Who's the better fan?" contest. We both know all the facts involved, we're just arguing over how to interpret them, agreed?

Second, if I parroted the Handbooks, it's only because that type of argument has worked best on other contributors here. I'd love to just argue on the merits.

Third, let me be very clear on what I'm arguing for: removing the Terminatrix Objective reference from the sidebar. I'm not saying Immortus is immortal, or suggesting we split Old Immortus to another page, or substantively alter the Bio text on this subject. I just think naming his Death Issue in the sidebar makes it sound more definitive that this situation is. "Technically not inaccurate", and "does not mean it won't happen", as you put it, is not a high enough standard.

The fact that none of Immortus's past appearances were rendered non-canon by Avengers Forever #12 is a point in my favor. They all still happened...to a different incarnation of Immortus. Two different versions of Immortus were created by the end of Avengers Forever. The first by the final divergence in Kang's lifetime: one Rama-Tut goes forward into Limbo and becomes Immortus, the other Rama-Tut rejects his destiny and becomes Kang again to fight Immortus. Then Immortus is created again when the Time Keepers force the change upon Kang. One aspect of Kang relents and becomes Immortus, the other does not.

In order to claim Immortus's death in TO is inevitable, his timeline cannot diverge or be rewritten. And it's impossible to look at Avengers Forever without accepting that Immortus's timeline has diverged or been rewritten. If the young Immortus from AF #12 is in a loop with the previous Immortus's timeline, and must then go forth from that point and physically do everything we know Immortus has done in the past, then his final appearance would be AF #11 when the Time Keepers killed him. If, on the other hand, the original Immortus's actions and machinations stand on their own, and AF #12's Immortus is NOT bound to carry them out to ensure they happened, then his destiny is his own.

(1) Immortus's peaceful ascension from Rama-Tut is rewritten into his forceful separation from Kang in AF #12. All Immortus ever does begins at that point. Immortus dies in AF #11 / Immortus dies in TO #4. If there's only one Immortus, this is impossible.

(2) Immortus's peaceful ascension from Rama-Tut leads to his death in AF #11. A divergent Immortus arises after forcibly separated from Kang. Divergent Immortusi are therefore possible and his future is not fixed.

Your "key point" that Immortus is a singular entity needs review. Being a multiversal singularity is not Immortus's super-power: it's not an immutable fact or universal law like it may be for the Living Tribunal or the Time Keepers. It's something that happened because of circumstances, and if those circumstances changed it would no longer be true. Immortus is immortal and singular because he resides in Limbo. The timeless realm prevents time from passing (so he doesn't age), and when time doesn't pass it doesn't diverge (so alternate Immortus's do not appear).

But when Immortus enters the timestream, he becomes subject to its laws. TO's Immortus acknowledges this when he says (paraphrasing) he eventually got old by spending too much time out of Limbo. And then he dies...out of Limbo. If Immortus's death occurred in Limbo or at the End of Time, it may be immutable, but it occurred in real time, making it subject to divergence.

Removing the Death tag from the sidebar does not make Immortus immortal, or say that he'll never die. Leaving that space open just says "We don't know for certain when this character dies." And when dealing with future timelines and divergent counterparts, which Immortus IS subject to (though not as much as other characters), that is the most honest way to present the information we have.