Board Thread:Questions and Answers/@comment-61022-20160330220251/@comment-61022-20160405154556

Ben 1,000,911 wrote: Well we do know that mistakes were made in that handbook anyway right? Didn't we say at some point in this very thread (I can't find it now for the thread is too long) that the characters did have their memories altered like I said? So if that mistake was made regarding this, then...

And also, in the final Ultimate End issue, Miles shows examples of people from 616's and 1610's past through a montage, leading the reader to believe that these characters are from those realities and have the same memories as the other characters. I know it sounds like a House of M rip-off but that's actually what I think happened. Also, the way the 616 X-Men recognized Old Man Logan means Wolverine died in their reality, among other things. Come on. This would be too much of a coincidence for the realities not to be the originals. And Old Man Logan himself wakes up in 616 in his new series and recognizes people he met in Ultimate End, does he not? Meaning that either the 616 people are 61610 people (which would ruin EVERYTHING if that were the case), or the Ultimate End people are 616 and 1610 people, which makes the most sense. Other domains can have realities that are different, because they are not as important as the two main worlds and will have some hypocrisies. This mini-series was based off of the two main universes and therefore probably is made up of them. I see of no inconsistencies to say otherwise actually except for the handbook which could easily be an error.

Note: I am not intentionally trying to argue with you guys. I mean you're admins and I've only been into the current MU since the spring of 2014. I'm just saying what I actually believe, and if you can prove to me that you're all right I will admit it. I just don't think so.

Like I was saying before is if you're going to toss out one thing said in a handbook, then we have to toss out everything.

Now you're comparing two different issues based on our standpoint regarding what the handbook says and if it is a mistake or not: The events of Ultimate End, and the facts pertaining to the Susan von Doom explanation.

With the Sue von Doom situation, the handbook says it is the 616 version. If it were up to me, I'd go strictly with the handbook and follow that until something gets official stated in story to correct what Brevoort and Hickman state is in error. Frankly, from a story telling perspective, I think it would have been more insidious if Doom did steal Reed's family... But I digress... The two writers state otherwise I'm willing to concede to the fact provided we include notes clarifying the apparent error and the appropriate references (including a reference to the handbook, and links to Brevoorts tumblr answer) be added to the pages.

Because at the end of the day, that's what we need to be doing when stating facts: providing a reference.

Where the Ultimate End storyline differs from the Sue von Doom (And why we're going with what the handbook says) is because the writer in question (Bendis) has not (as yet) stated otherwise, nor has there been any printed material since the end of Secret Wars (to our collective knowledge) that suggests otherwise. Ergo, we go with the most reliable source. Which is... wait for it... The handbook.

Which the handbook provides the best explanation as well, because it explains ALL of the various continuity glitches. Which looks better than plopping it in someone's profile and writing "Somehow so-and-so is brought back to life" or "somehow so-and-so is wearing THIS costume"

I get what you're trying to do: You want this to BE the 616 and 1610 characters. But unfortunately, you have to take a look at the grander scheme of things and accept the facts.

You said it yourself you've only been following Marvel since spring 2014. With all due respect while that pretty well keeps you informed on what is presently going on, that puts you very much out of the loop on how the fiction normally operates. If you take a look at my posts earlier in the thread I go into quite a bit of detail explaining why it's an alternate reality, what supports that position, and the fact that EVEN if down the road there is some kind of explanation that it was the 616 and 1610 characters we would STILL NEED to create separate profiles for all of these characters. My position is coming from 25+ years of seriously reading Marvel Comics (I've been reading comics for 30 years all told) as well as going back and reading a large chunk of the 77 years of Marvel continuity.

I don't say this in a "look at how much longer I've been at this" to gloat or anything. I'm just saying that when you are that deeply entrenched in the fiction you can see the larger picture when it comes to these sort of things. You see patterns that not only the writers make, but how the handbooks also choose to interpret them, what things are reinforced, what's tweaked, what's tossed away. There's a consistency to it.