Thread:Nausiated/@comment-3406131-20161123180656/@comment-61022-20161123200011

Hey hey,

In response to your questions...

Real Life VS. Fiction

About the 616 and 1218 similarities, I think for the most part, the idea that they lived similar lives is presumptive in lieu of any in-story facts that might be stated. I am of the mind that if we link to a credible source on the real life version of the person (say Wikipedia for example) that should be suitable. I think to add 1218 facts would overshadow the facts specific to Earth-616.

I also feel that when it comes to real life facts.. and this probably applies more to political figures than anything else.. we are opening ourselves up to people starting edit wars over differing opinions or interpretation on the subject in question.

A side point to this is that I feel that most people who create profiles on real life individuals aren't going to do the necessary research on the individual before adding the information. (The Elvis Profile before I edited it is a great example.)

I feel that if people are interested in knowing the real life version of the person versus the one appeared in comics they can research it on a site that is the center of expertise on such subjects. While I am sure there are people who may edit on the Marvel Database who are knowledgeable on real life people, I don't think anyone is really all that motivated to focus on such dry subject.

In addition, if we're making all sorts of statements of facts, we'd also need to look up all the credible references of such statements. If they're not stated in the comics, we need to cite the sources where that information came from. That's a lot of referencing to the Wikipedia page on that person or citing other sources both on and off-line. Is that something people are really going to want to do?

Is Elvis an Alien?

On the point where Genis-Vell states that Elvis was an alien. I could see how having the Cosmic Consciousness could make his statement irrefutable, but there is no corroborating evidence of this. He was making a statement. Given the tongue-and-cheek nature of a lot of Peter David's writing particularly with the relationship between Rick Jones and Genis at the time... I could question that validity of the statement. He could have been saying it as a joke, or to get a rise out of Rick. I would file that one under "believe it when I see it".

It's a little different than say, for example, the Skrull Beatles. If you take a look at Wisdom Vol 1, it's a major subplot of the series and there are multiple people corroborating it.

I would put that fact in the same category as people who think Elvis is still alive (or at least didn't die in 1977), you can show a lot of statements that suggest it, but nothing that critically proves it. It would take Elvis appearing publicly going "Hey, I'm still alive!" pretty much.

I feel much the same about a single statement made by a character in a comic published 12 years ago. There's not even so much of a flashback backing this up (if I recall correctly). It would have also been nice if Genis mentioned which species this alien was or some other facts to give it some credibility.

Was Elvis Really in Hades?

As for Elvis being seen in Hades.. Again, that's more in line with common situations in the Marvel Universe.

Examples I could think of is the appearance of Mocking Bird among the Legion of the Unliving in when it was later revealed in Secret Invasion that she wasn't died by replaced by a Skrull impostor.

So was the dead woman posing as Mockingbird the Skrull impostor? Something else? Other Legion of the Unliving examples are the inclusion of Bucky and Count Nefaria.

If you take a look at the most recent profile in the Marvel Handbooks about the Legion of the Unliving It states that some incarnations of the Legion particularly ones that existed in some neitherworld or were depicted as reanimated corpses (So Legions created by the Grim Reaper and other supernatural forces rather than the ones created by Kang or Immortus) it has a note stating that the possibility that these roles were filled by impostors (possibly demons) to further torment the heroes they were facing against.

Another example is Scott Lang as Ant-Man in the realm of the dead in X-Statix Presents: Dead Girl Vol 1 when we learn later in Avengers: The Children's Crusade Vol 1 that he was pulled forward in time mere moments before his apparent death during Avengers Disassembled.

So if Scott Lang never truly died, who was the person posing as him in the land of the dead?

So to get to the crux of it.. Was the person in Hades really Elvis? Or was it someone else posing as Elvis? There is certainly precedence for this kind of deception. Likewise, I question why Elvis would be in the neither realm belonging to the Greek pantheon of Gods. Particularly since Presley was Pentecostal. Generally speaking, most people who truly die in the Marvel Universe end up in an afterlife representative of their belief system (or closest approximation thereof). Based on that, it'd take a little more explaining to quantify why he'd be in Hades instead of a more Catholic style afterlife (be it a paradise or eternal damnation notwithstanding)

Taaaaking all that into account. In the context of the story... ...

Wow.. Okay... So again, I'd question a lot of these characters appearances being here given the record of deceptions in the various neither realms of the afterlife. Also given the chosen faith of a lot of these characters.

One is the Jackal.. Who has cloned and faked his death so many times, his appearance here is questionable. Is that the Jackal? A clone? An impostor? It could even be his alleged son for all we know. Another is the Sourge. Whoever put the appearance in assumes it the original Scourge, but again, there were so many characters who took on that identity many were believed to be dead at one point or another. How are we sure it's Dezlany? Why couldn't it be Jack Monroe (who was also dead at this point)

The same can be said about Jack O'Lanturn. At the time of this story there were two past Jack O'Lanturn's dead (Macendale and Steve Levens) Is it one, or the other? Neither?

Orka and Cobalt Man were both seemingly killed, but have later resurfaced with no explanation as to how they came back. Did they really die?

Then there are the heroes...

The Wasp was believed to have died during Secret Invasion, this was proven as false as well in. Did Jack of Hearts really die during Avengers Disassemble? Or was he just converted into energy which was then gathered back together in Marvel Zombies Supreme?

Annnd then there's the death/faith thing. I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that any of these characters had faith any Grecian religions that worshiped the Olympians. This is particularly bothersome when you consider that Orka (an Atlantean) and Vernake (a Skrull) is seen among these character. They're not even humans and likely believe in a faith more in line with their cultural backgrounds (if at all). Maaaaaaaybe Baron Zemo and Armless Tiger Man given their Germanic heritage and it's loose connection to both Norse and Grecian mythology, but even that is a stretch.

Anyway, long winded explanation, but the credibility of all of these well established characters are quite a lot more questionable than a minor appearance of Elvis, who -- in the context of the story was among heroes waiting to be resurrected... His inclusion was likely a joke on the part of the creative team. It probably shouldn't even been taken literally anyway... But here we are.

Wow... Comics are hard sometimes.