Thread:MutantMenace/@comment-2051886-20120314020153/@comment-2051886-20120325165244

It took a while, but I got it. It was brought-up on a blog, which I haven't found, and I responded first to ProfessorKilroy's talk page.

"Blog response

I hate to eavesdrop, but you brought-up a point that I would like to advocate. Honestly, I have debated with certain people about the the amount of info that I have on particular entries, but all of the feedback I get from my community of comic followers want to know specific details of their characters. I thought that I found a medium by simply giving a sentence for each issue. That way, the single articles would not be as large and a majority of the info would still be in the bio. Another thing that I've been trying to do for the articles that I edit, I leave a header for every big change in a character's story. When scrolling down, one doesn't have to read the entire article, you just read the paragraph header and decide if it is important to you or not. What tends to happen is that a new writer will take-on a character and bring-up something from a past event. If you come to this site, to understand the connection, there is, at least, a mention of it. You're asking to add to the page, to make it easier to skim, but I ask you why not just scroll down? I'm not against your idea, but I wonder if it's another simple problem that we could fix ourselves, as site surfers. I ask you: What's overwhelming about right clicking the down arrow?

--Wazzirving 13:59, August 8, 2011 (UTC)wazzirving

By all means, eavesdrop. I couldn't post it on everyone's talk pages, so I just put it on some. Anyway, I don't think it's at all overwhelming to press the down arrow button, but it's overwhelming to soak in all of the information, or at least, pick out which bits are really important and soak them in. I don't really want to "skim" the page as such, just make a very very compact version, that only highlights important events. I am proposing to keep the history of the character pages, but have them moved to an "Expanded History" page, so that all the detail is still there. I would possibly enjoy reading through piles of history, but often don't have that kind of time (or understanding of some involvements with other characters, leading me to search through their character pages to find more about them, and so on). For example, I don't know anything about Daredevil. Except that he's from the Marvel Universe, is blind, wears a red costume, and had a movie. I went to the Daredevil page to find out more about him, only to find paragraphs on paragraphs of information. I only wanted to get a brief idea of his origins, and some significant achievements or involvements in storylines. But I had no idea how to go through all of the unfamiliar information to find the important bits. --Professor Kilroy 22:58, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Isn't that the point of the discombobulation page? If you want to simply know a brief overview of any character, there is a description of said character on the discomb page. Only the mainstream character has the info, but all alternate reality versions are, usually, based-off the mainstream. Once again, I understand what you're saying and don't discourage it, but I don't see a profound need for it. You come from a point of view stating that it needs to be easier to omit information, what about the side that wants that info? You've just made it harder for them. In my experience, it has never been hard to ignore information, but to find it, is another thing. Look at the Cyclops page, then check the Scott Summers page. Cyclops page gives an overview, while the Scott Summers give the detailed info. Is that not what you were asking for?

--Wazzirving 16:29, August 8, 2011 (UTC)wazzirving

We've discussed your idea in the past, Kilroy, and honestly, that's as far as it has ever gotten. Peter Parker (Earth-1610)'s Expanded History is sort of the closest we currently have. Really, I'd consider the ideal situation to be the first paragraph of character histories (large ones, I mean. If a character's history is just one or two paragraphs, this obviously doesn't apply) as a summation of the article itself, then the following paragraphs would expand on that. This way, people could get a quick overview of the character (similar to what certain disambiguation pages, such as Captain America, have). While repetitive for certain characters, it would be beneficial to characters like Ultimate Spider-Man or characters who lack disambiguation pages because there's no alternate version of them.

And when leaving an edit on a talk page, remember to leave your signature using four tildas, like this: Wazzirving 16:52, March 25, 2012 (UTC). It helps link back to your user page, making it easier for people who want to leave a response on your talk page.

--GrnMarvl14 17:52, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd forgotten about the disambiguation pages, but I guess that's kinda what I was after. But I think I was looking for something a little more, you know, just a couple of paragraphs. Enough to go into some detail, but not too much. It's just a suggestion, but I think it's still worth trying it or discussing more, even though it's already put in place on the Ultimate Spiderman page. But hey, I want the info as well. I like the hugely detailed stuff, and enjoy reading it. But sometimes all I want is the general idea of the character, like its origins, famous or regular villains, etc. I just don't get that from the disambiguation pages, particularly the Captain America one. Besides, I don't think it's that much harder for those who want the really detailed information. If the link to Expanded History was at the start of the history section, they could click it and go there straight away. Perhaps, if you wanted it all on the same page, maybe there's a way of literally expanding it on the page itself. Perhaps the idea of the overview section (first paragraph or so of the history section) would be better and easier to coordinate. Oh, and sorry about my signature. I did use the whole Wazzirving 16:52, March 25, 2012 (UTC) thing, but I don't know why it didn't link. --Professor Kilroy 22:58, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

What I would suggest doing is copying a character's page into a sandbox (something like User:ProfessorKilroy/Sandbox) and then doing the overhaul you think would be best in the sandbox. That way, you can illustrate your point in a very visible manner without altering the normal page and leading to conflict there. Would allow you to make whatever changes you feel would be best (or merely map out what changes you think would be best using dummy text and pictures) in a safe area, and if people have minor changes they'd make, they can show you (and, then, if you don't like those changes, you can revert them). That way, this could be less of a discussion of what might be, and more of a show-and-tell (and by using a sandbox you're, again, not going to risk upsetting anyone by messing with the character page itself). Nothing helps people understand things better than graphic illustrations (and pretty pictures). Because, honestly, I'm not entirely certain what you're saying (I get it, and I don't get it. I get the basic idea, but not what your end goal is). --GrnMarvl14 02:18, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, will do. Just keep in mind, that my knowledge of the Marvel Universe isn't hugely extensive, but I'll try my best to illustrate my idea. --Professor Kilroy 04:22, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps the simplest solution would be to add a new section in the character template, "Overview" or something, which will be displayed before "History" section and will include a summary of the character. Section should be optional, so as not to clutter the page with empty headers. --Harasar 04:44, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. I like the "Overview" idea. That kind of thing would be perfect. And as to the contents of the section, it should only need to be a couple of sentences about their origin, and how they received their powers (or became who they became), and a brief mention of some important alliances, teams involved with, important storylines and events involved with, regular villains, and perhaps a note on their current whereabouts. And I think that's fairly self-explanatory. --Professor Kilroy 05:49, August 14, 2011 (UTC)