Is this character supposed to be Jormungund, the Midgard Serpent that's appeared in a few other Marvel stories in the past? The fact his tomb's under the sea and guarded by dragons would seem to support this notion, but how it ties into his previous appearances, I've no idea. EJA 10:17, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
- In a way, yes. The legend says that Thor was supposed to battle the "Serpent" and after killing the Serpent, take nine steps and die. Odin knew this prophecy and wanted to spare his son, so he hid the true origins of the "Serpent". Over the centuries, we were led to believe that the "Serpent" was the Midgard Serpent, Jormungand, when, in-fact, it was Odin's older brother, Cul.
- --Wazzirving 05:17, November 8, 2011 (UTC)wazzirving
-He could be the first version Odin that inhabited asgard before teh actual Odin was born. -He could also see the Midgard Serpent. -He could be the serpent that fought the original Odin and Thor before the first Ragnarok. -He could just be another fallen powerful God just claiming to be the allfatherH
Since there is much confusion I shall clarify having the most experience with Asgardians and their series. Firstly Cul's claim as the True AllFather has merits in The Mighty Thor 7 which details Odin's true past and historical Accounts. However this does conflict with details in current runs about Bor's death. Since future Loki claimed to have killed him and not him die of old age. The main topic of debate is not if he is or is not the all father. Rather if he is indeed Asgardian which all important marvel characters like Mephisto, Hela and others acknowledge. Furthermore Odin supports the claim and verifies it. So should he be moved to Asgardian section and indeed linked for reference when looking up all father yes he should.
- The fact that the Asgardians have a continuing cycle of death and Ragnarök should also come into play, when considering the claim of Cul becoming All-Father after Bor died. It is possible that Bor had died many times over also. Remember that one of the reasons Odin mated with Gaea was because he wanted a little of humanity in his next son, Thor. In the Disassembled story-line, Thor stated that Odin was stuck in the "old ways" and was simply okay with the continuing cycle, as that was all he knew, and Thor decided to allow the Asgardians a glorious death. Maybe, Odin was so used to the death and rebirth cycle, because he had been experiencing it since he was a child.
- --Wazzirving 05:29, November 8, 2011 (UTC)wazzirving
Rebirth & Death
Yes its true the rebirth cycle plays a good part in his claim but not so in this instance since both Cul and Odin agree on his past. The cycle in this version Bor died of old age but after cul was locked away. It began anew without cul Bor died at the hands of Loki and it was only Odin Vli and Ve. There for the claims of him being all father is very true for this instance.
- I agreed that Cul was truly Odin's brother and the true All-Father, but I was simply playing advocate to your statement "However this does conflict with details in current runs about Bor's death." I am saying that it is possible that the reason it (Cul's origins) conflicts with details of Bor's death, is, maybe, because of the continuous cycles of Ragnarök. It could be possible that Bor, like Odin, Thor, and the rest, has died and been reborn with Those Who Sit Above in Shadow feeding off his energies. Maybe, in one death, Loki turned him to snow, while Odin was old enough to fight by his side, and maybe in another, the last one before Cul came into power, he died while the children were younger. It should also be stated that Mighty Thor #7 never said that Bor died of old age, you did. Bor was simply lying dead on a viewing table. Bucky's LMD was on a similar table and he did not die of old age. We don't know and won't know exactly which death cycle Odin and Bor are speaking of, until the big wheels at Marvel get turning and tell us, but I was simply saying that it could be a possibility and dispute your claim of it "conflicting with current runs".
- --Wazzirving 00:37, November 15, 2011 (UTC)wazzirving
Indeed the validity of your point is well put to say the least I agree for the most part. However the fact is in that cycle according to their origins then Bor did indeed die in this cycle. Or cul would not have ascended the throne nor would the world tree vision occur if such did not happen. Marvel does have cleaning up to do indeed were it not for a keen mind paying heed to events carefully. It can be daunting to understand all of it. Bare in mind this is a theory but facts seem to point to this being the first cycle on earth in terms of Cul being cut from history. Since those who sit above have run the cycle. Every cycle since cul's expulsion from history has had Asgard in space not earth. So yes we may not know which cycle but at the very least its the earliest since Asgard was on earth and cul was in the cycle.I however never stated bor was dead The Mighty Thor#7 did in the words of cul and Odin thus it would be marvel stating Odin died.
It's very unlikely that the Serpent is meant to be Nidhogg since he had appearances in the comics going back to 1984. The last of which as recent as 2010 (if just in flashback). Beast of Averoigne 16:23, May 10, 2012 (UTC)