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(Gender Pronouns misuse, powers section.)
 
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:X-23 has donated genetic material from another source. Jessica's differences were likely done developmentally (you don't need to change DNA to change functional sex). So there are differences there. [[User:ZeroSD|ZeroSD]] ([[User talk:ZeroSD|talk]]) 10:57, November 18, 2013 (UTC)
 
:X-23 has donated genetic material from another source. Jessica's differences were likely done developmentally (you don't need to change DNA to change functional sex). So there are differences there. [[User:ZeroSD|ZeroSD]] ([[User talk:ZeroSD|talk]]) 10:57, November 18, 2013 (UTC)
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:: But Jessica's DNA was changed(Y to X chromosome), so she's less of a clone of Parker; more like his daughter (forgetting the fact that all your clones are technically your biological children.) But Jessica has all of Parker's memories and personality, so it's more like Peter in a girl's body who just happens to be a female 'clone' of his. This also explains why "Jessica" likes girls, it's actually Peter living as if he were a girl.
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:::{{Unsigned|Jaque355}}
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I think this should stay Jessica because didn't she legallyu change it to that, Richard is different he was given memories that weren't actually his.
   
 
==Spider-Clone as an affiliation==
 
==Spider-Clone as an affiliation==
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It was unintentional, and I fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Uncanny X-Factor|Uncanny X-Factor]] ([[User talk:Uncanny X-Factor|talk]]) 20:19, April 25, 2014 (UTC)Uncanny X-Factor
 
It was unintentional, and I fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Uncanny X-Factor|Uncanny X-Factor]] ([[User talk:Uncanny X-Factor|talk]]) 20:19, April 25, 2014 (UTC)Uncanny X-Factor
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Thanks =D --[[User:Whippycream1|Whippycream1]] ([[User talk:Whippycream1|talk]]) 08:28, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
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: but Jessica is simply Peter's brain in his daughter's (chromosomally modified, asexually born) body. "Peter Parker" the person is a boy, the body he resides in 'Jessica Drew' is female, so shouldn't 'Jessica Drew' be male, because it's still Peter acting like a girl, unless Jessica is able to form an identity of her own and treat the Peter Parker memories and personality as an archive or databank of her father's (genetic template) thoughts and experiences (similar to genetic memory.) This seems to be already happening since though Jessica has liking towards female redheads due to Peter(the memories in her brain) she(the body) also likes guys(it's complicated.) Since 'Jessica Drew' as an organism is a combination of a female body based on Peter Parker(making her his daughter), combined with Peter Parker's identity, along with a newly forming identity of it's own(new experiences, different biology, new brain etc.) shouldn't 'Jessica Drew' be treated as an amalgam, similar to how transformers combine to make new transformers. or should we assume that Peter Parker's identity is a free loader living inside his daughter's body which would make Jessica a female with genetic memory.
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:{{Unsigned|Jaque355}}
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==Homosexual or Bisexual==
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[[User:ADour|You]] [[User:Happyhelp|two]] stop arguing and discuss it here.[[User:Ultraman TopFan|Ultraman TopFan]] ([[User talk:Ultraman TopFan|talk]]) 09:28, October 13, 2014 (UTC)
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: whether Jessica is gay or not all depends on whether
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::1) Jessica = Peter in female body
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::2) Jessica(newly arising personality) temporarily(still muddled) acting on Peter's(boy) memories and likings.
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:and where the tendencies come from, if Jessica is Peter then he isn't gay (he did kiss a guy though), or if it's Jessica acting out peter's memories then she's gay, unless Jessica is going through a phase, where the new brain is trying to separate and quarantine Peter Parker from the newly forming Jessica Drew, leaving Peter Parker to be nothing more than genetic memory. This would make the case similar to either that of 2 people living in the same body, a guy stuck in a girl's body or a girl with a databank containing the memories and experiences of her da downloaded into her brain.
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:{{Unsigned|Jaque355}}
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--------------
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I think I have a good option on what to do about this problem, but we need to consider some things first:
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*Jessica is not Peter Parker
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**Although she is a female clone of Peter with his old memories, just like 616 ben reilly and kaine were, she created an identity for her as her own. She doesn't identify herself as Peter, but as Jessica. So it doesn't really matter if she acts in a similar way as Peter. She is her own person, with her own identity and ideas, just like Ben or Kaine.
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*Some canon events:
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** During [[Ultimate Comics Spider-Man Vol 1 9| Bendis run]], Jessica dates the [[Jonathan Storm (Earth-1610)|Human Torch]] and during a conversation between Johnny and Peter, it's very clear that the date went well. This leads us to believe that she is bissexual.
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**Many people pointed out that it "makes more sense" for her to be lesbian, mainly because she being attracted to men could mean that [[Peter Parker (Earth-1610)|Peter]] is also attracted to men, impling that he is also a bissexual, but as far as we know, he is only attracted to women. I desagree with this interpretation, because Jessica is not Peter, and should not be treated as an extention of him, neither should we tret her sexuality or preferences simply as a copy of Peter's. Jessica dating Johnny is her own thing, and it helps her cement her identity as someone different from her genetic template.
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** But in this [[All-New Ultimates Vol 1 4| All-new Ultimates issue]], Jessica states that although she has a girl body with the "mental pattern with a guy", but she feels that she is developing her own feelings and ideas, and that she is into girls, specially redheads. This leads us to beieve that she is lesbian, but as we know, she did date Johnny.
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*So, is she Bissexual or Homosexual?
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**I'd say that she is bissexual, because being bissexual doesn't exclude the fact that Jess is attracted to certain types of girls, neither that she prefers to date women over men, as she stated in the [[All-New Ultimates Vol 1 4|All-new Ultimates comic]].
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**This also includes her canon Johnny date (for some weird reason there is nothing about this o the page).
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Honestly I belive that the best option is adressing this discussion in the notes of the page, instead of simply saying she is lesbian, when there is strong evidence that she is not. And include her in both categories(homossexual and bissexual), until we have enough evidence.
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I personally believe that she is bi, but it will be more informative to people if we address that in the notes of the page, since the wiki main purpose is providing information.
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[[User:Renangalvim|Renangalvim]] ([[User talk:Renangalvim|talk]]) 20:24, July 1, 2020 (UTC)Renangalvim
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:Just as a general point, if someone who is gay dated someone of the opposite sex, that does not mean that they're automatically bisexual, it simply means that at some point they may have bowed to the pressure of societal expectations. -- [[User:AnnabellRice|Annabell]] ([[User talk:AnnabellRice|talk]]) 21:29, July 1, 2020 (UTC)
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:: That's true, and it really could be the case, but I think that it would be better to put her in both categories and acknoledge that in the notes of the page, because even thought this point you raised is very valid and true, someone could be bissexual even if this person prefers dating girls in general. Also, given that Jessica questions her gender a lot throughout the series - and has memories of the pressure that Peter felt but impacted on her way of thinking - maybe the social pressure on her would be very different for her compared to a non- clone, homosexual cis-woman.
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::ps: I don't know if she is considered to be trans, (probally not because of cloning and stuff) but this conflict sounds a lot like a conflict that trans people go through, so thats why I added the "cis" in the end.
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[[User:Renangalvim|Renangalvim]] ([[User talk:Renangalvim|talk]]) 00:51, July 2, 2020 (UTC)
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==Spider-Man Unlimited==
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I don't think the Black Widow from [[Spider-Man Unlimited (video game)]] is the same one from the comics. The timeline just doesn't match up.--[[User:MysteryScooby|MysteryScooby]] ([[User talk:MysteryScooby|talk]]) 18:49, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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:Spider-UK did say that she was from [[Earth-1610]]. [[User:Ultraman TopFan|Ultraman TopFan]] ([[User talk:Ultraman TopFan|talk]]) 09:54, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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::It could be a variation of Earth-616 still named Earth-616 until some point ? (same as in the Ghost Boxes storyline) [[User:Undoniel|Undoniel]] ([[User talk:Undoniel|talk]]) 09:57, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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:::Um, that's a mistake, I meant to say [[Earth-1610]]. I will now fix that error. [[User:Ultraman TopFan|Ultraman TopFan]] ([[User talk:Ultraman TopFan|talk]]) 10:44, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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::::No problem, that doesn't change what I said: A variation of Earth-1610 still called Earth-1610 even when it isn't anymore, like [[Earth-81211]].[[User:Undoniel|Undoniel]] ([[User talk:Undoniel|talk]]) 13:09, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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::::So, I should start making a page to for her now. [[User:Ultraman TopFan|Ultraman TopFan]] ([[User talk:Ultraman TopFan|talk]]) 13:13, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Wait a minute, yes Ghost Box reality was called Earth-616 because 81211 diverged from it. But there's no mention that Jessica in Unlimited is a divergent 1610. Maybe it's a similiar but an alternate earth. If we give Black Widow from Unlimited a TRN, it would be just a speculation. I mean, it appears to be that character from game is a seperate one and game and comic version of her both being the same version don't make any sense but it's just a speculation, even if its don't make any sense. Personally I concider game version of her as an alternate version of 1610 but we are not sure. Also I started to think that Unlimited versions of the characters meant to be the regular versions.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:00, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:53, July 2, 2020

Name? Edit

-I'm confused. I thought clones were supposed to have thier genetic template's name and then the their name (or just clone the case that they have no name) in parenthesis. Could somebody please explain?!-Chronoman1999 22:45, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

It seems that it only applies to same gender clones, as it would be strange to name a woman "Peter Parker". SeanWheeler (talk) 18:18, August 19, 2012 (UTC)
I disagree. A clone is a clone no matter what the gender. MysteryScooby (talk) 4:45, Febuary 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well The same discussion was on X-23's profile (even if she is not a clone, but a genetic receiver or what else..), but she can't be really a clone if she switch gender. Or she is a cloned male with an malfunction of the testosterone production during the embryo development (resulting in a male phenotype but a female caryotype (chromosomes)) (yuk) (but as I haven't read all of her, I don't know if there is any precision), or she is a biological creation using Peter's DNA but not a properly called clone.

Also, she's not really a counterpart of Jessica Drew, but choose this name, i put her on other and no more on alternate counterpartUndoniel (talk) 21:40, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Is it possible that she's a counterpart of Ben Reilly? MysteryScooby (talk) 2:17, June 13, 2013

Except that she is a Peter Parker clone, there is no evidence of this counterpartery (I am creating the English language of tomorrow). I would say no. Maybe the writers have created her intending to create the equivalence of the "good clone". Undoniel (talk) 09:52, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

She's a clone in the same sense as X-23 is. It's fine to label the other Ultimate clones Peter Parker since they never adopted their own name aside from their mantles (Scorpion, Kaine etc), but like X-23, Spider-Woman has effectively evolved into a completely separate character at this point. She picked the name Jessica Drew, therefore she is Jessica Drew. Just as X-23 is Laura Kinney. Besides, there's obviously more of a biological difference between Drew and Parker than there is between Parker and the other clones. The name should remain Jessica Drew.

X-23 has donated genetic material from another source. Jessica's differences were likely done developmentally (you don't need to change DNA to change functional sex). So there are differences there. ZeroSD (talk) 10:57, November 18, 2013 (UTC)
But Jessica's DNA was changed(Y to X chromosome), so she's less of a clone of Parker; more like his daughter (forgetting the fact that all your clones are technically your biological children.) But Jessica has all of Parker's memories and personality, so it's more like Peter in a girl's body who just happens to be a female 'clone' of his. This also explains why "Jessica" likes girls, it's actually Peter living as if he were a girl.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaque355 (talk • contribs).


I think this should stay Jessica because didn't she legallyu change it to that, Richard is different he was given memories that weren't actually his.

Spider-Clone as an affiliationEdit

Really unsure about it. Is there a teem "spider-clone"? (and if there is, pardon my lack of knowledge). Undoniel (talk) 17:10, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, no, the Spider-clones weren't a team.
--The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 18:28, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
That's what I thought. Thanks. Undoniel (talk) 19:51, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Gender Pronouns misuse, powers section. Edit

I think there is some errors in the powers section. Namely in Superhuman Equilibrium and Superhuman Reflexes, it uses both she/her and he/him when referring to Jessica. If it's intentional can someone explain that to me then? --Whippycream1 (talk) 12:57, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

It was unintentional, and I fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out. Uncanny X-Factor (talk) 20:19, April 25, 2014 (UTC)Uncanny X-Factor

Thanks =D --Whippycream1 (talk) 08:28, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

but Jessica is simply Peter's brain in his daughter's (chromosomally modified, asexually born) body. "Peter Parker" the person is a boy, the body he resides in 'Jessica Drew' is female, so shouldn't 'Jessica Drew' be male, because it's still Peter acting like a girl, unless Jessica is able to form an identity of her own and treat the Peter Parker memories and personality as an archive or databank of her father's (genetic template) thoughts and experiences (similar to genetic memory.) This seems to be already happening since though Jessica has liking towards female redheads due to Peter(the memories in her brain) she(the body) also likes guys(it's complicated.) Since 'Jessica Drew' as an organism is a combination of a female body based on Peter Parker(making her his daughter), combined with Peter Parker's identity, along with a newly forming identity of it's own(new experiences, different biology, new brain etc.) shouldn't 'Jessica Drew' be treated as an amalgam, similar to how transformers combine to make new transformers. or should we assume that Peter Parker's identity is a free loader living inside his daughter's body which would make Jessica a female with genetic memory.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaque355 (talk • contribs).


Homosexual or BisexualEdit

You two stop arguing and discuss it here.Ultraman TopFan (talk) 09:28, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

whether Jessica is gay or not all depends on whether
1) Jessica = Peter in female body
2) Jessica(newly arising personality) temporarily(still muddled) acting on Peter's(boy) memories and likings.
and where the tendencies come from, if Jessica is Peter then he isn't gay (he did kiss a guy though), or if it's Jessica acting out peter's memories then she's gay, unless Jessica is going through a phase, where the new brain is trying to separate and quarantine Peter Parker from the newly forming Jessica Drew, leaving Peter Parker to be nothing more than genetic memory. This would make the case similar to either that of 2 people living in the same body, a guy stuck in a girl's body or a girl with a databank containing the memories and experiences of her da downloaded into her brain.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaque355 (talk • contribs).



I think I have a good option on what to do about this problem, but we need to consider some things first:

  • Jessica is not Peter Parker
    • Although she is a female clone of Peter with his old memories, just like 616 ben reilly and kaine were, she created an identity for her as her own. She doesn't identify herself as Peter, but as Jessica. So it doesn't really matter if she acts in a similar way as Peter. She is her own person, with her own identity and ideas, just like Ben or Kaine.
  • Some canon events:
    • During Bendis run, Jessica dates the Human Torch and during a conversation between Johnny and Peter, it's very clear that the date went well. This leads us to believe that she is bissexual.
    • Many people pointed out that it "makes more sense" for her to be lesbian, mainly because she being attracted to men could mean that Peter is also attracted to men, impling that he is also a bissexual, but as far as we know, he is only attracted to women. I desagree with this interpretation, because Jessica is not Peter, and should not be treated as an extention of him, neither should we tret her sexuality or preferences simply as a copy of Peter's. Jessica dating Johnny is her own thing, and it helps her cement her identity as someone different from her genetic template.
    • But in this All-new Ultimates issue, Jessica states that although she has a girl body with the "mental pattern with a guy", but she feels that she is developing her own feelings and ideas, and that she is into girls, specially redheads. This leads us to beieve that she is lesbian, but as we know, she did date Johnny.
  • So, is she Bissexual or Homosexual?
    • I'd say that she is bissexual, because being bissexual doesn't exclude the fact that Jess is attracted to certain types of girls, neither that she prefers to date women over men, as she stated in the All-new Ultimates comic.
    • This also includes her canon Johnny date (for some weird reason there is nothing about this o the page).

Honestly I belive that the best option is adressing this discussion in the notes of the page, instead of simply saying she is lesbian, when there is strong evidence that she is not. And include her in both categories(homossexual and bissexual), until we have enough evidence. I personally believe that she is bi, but it will be more informative to people if we address that in the notes of the page, since the wiki main purpose is providing information. Renangalvim (talk) 20:24, July 1, 2020 (UTC)Renangalvim

Just as a general point, if someone who is gay dated someone of the opposite sex, that does not mean that they're automatically bisexual, it simply means that at some point they may have bowed to the pressure of societal expectations. -- Annabell (talk) 21:29, July 1, 2020 (UTC)
That's true, and it really could be the case, but I think that it would be better to put her in both categories and acknoledge that in the notes of the page, because even thought this point you raised is very valid and true, someone could be bissexual even if this person prefers dating girls in general. Also, given that Jessica questions her gender a lot throughout the series - and has memories of the pressure that Peter felt but impacted on her way of thinking - maybe the social pressure on her would be very different for her compared to a non- clone, homosexual cis-woman.
ps: I don't know if she is considered to be trans, (probally not because of cloning and stuff) but this conflict sounds a lot like a conflict that trans people go through, so thats why I added the "cis" in the end.

Renangalvim (talk) 00:51, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Spider-Man UnlimitedEdit

I don't think the Black Widow from Spider-Man Unlimited (video game) is the same one from the comics. The timeline just doesn't match up.--MysteryScooby (talk) 18:49, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

Spider-UK did say that she was from Earth-1610. Ultraman TopFan (talk) 09:54, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
It could be a variation of Earth-616 still named Earth-616 until some point ? (same as in the Ghost Boxes storyline) Undoniel (talk) 09:57, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
Um, that's a mistake, I meant to say Earth-1610. I will now fix that error. Ultraman TopFan (talk) 10:44, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
No problem, that doesn't change what I said: A variation of Earth-1610 still called Earth-1610 even when it isn't anymore, like Earth-81211.Undoniel (talk) 13:09, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
So, I should start making a page to for her now. Ultraman TopFan (talk) 13:13, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
Wait a minute, yes Ghost Box reality was called Earth-616 because 81211 diverged from it. But there's no mention that Jessica in Unlimited is a divergent 1610. Maybe it's a similiar but an alternate earth. If we give Black Widow from Unlimited a TRN, it would be just a speculation. I mean, it appears to be that character from game is a seperate one and game and comic version of her both being the same version don't make any sense but it's just a speculation, even if its don't make any sense. Personally I concider game version of her as an alternate version of 1610 but we are not sure. Also I started to think that Unlimited versions of the characters meant to be the regular versions.--Primestar3 (talk) 15:00, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
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