Citizen V and the V Battalion features the Red Skull in a fb with someone resembling Emil Stein from TOS II#1.


The OHOTMU Hardcover series #9 gives the spelling of his and his daughter Sin's name as Shmidt, without the "c". Eetmi 16:41, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

How many reference sources use the "c", most of them?
Roygbiv666 -- Roygbiv666.jpg 02:55, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Master Edition Handbook uses the "c". Deluxe Edition and the '89 Update don't. The original series...has his real name us "unrevealed." Seems to be three to one, with one source abstaining.
--GrnMarvl14 03:36, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'd lean towards the recent A-Z Hardcovers since those are a LOT more recent than the others. Eetmi 00:06, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Same. And since both Red Skull's and Sin's profiles omit the "c", then I'd take that as being the accurate spelling. At least until the NEXT Handbook entry on either one changes it back.
--GrnMarvl14 01:48, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
How often is his name given in actual comic stories? I think just considering the OHOTMU type stuff is a bit limited. You only need one editor to miss something, and suddenly "Peter Parker" is "Petor Paker".
Roygbiv666 -- Roygbiv666.jpg 03:25, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
Schmidt is certainly the more common name and considered a "proper" german spelling, as the combination sh for that sound doesn't exist in german. The spelling Shmidt exists as well, but especially in Russia and the States and also quite often in Jewish families - now wouldn't that be a weird twist. ;) Marvel used Shmidt on several occasions for German soldiers in their war mags, but I always considered those typos and/or bad knowledge of German. Is there a reason for copying an obvious error, even if it's in the OHOTMU?--edkaufman 10:57, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
Because it's more accurate, continuity-wise. Maybe German's different in the ol' 616.
--GrnMarvl14 17:14, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
no doubt, a few things are very different, i.e plain "wrong" in the 616s. I still agree with Roygbiv666 (especially when considering the linguistic facts): This is a simple editor's typo. We all know how Marvel depends on dedicated fan-scholars to set things right when they mess up or miss things. Stick with the c. --edkaufman 00:56, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
Ugh, this is a nightmare. My heart wants to follow the hardcover series (like it's written by the hand of God), but my head says use common sense. :(
Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talkcontribsemail) 22:51, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
The Handbooks seem fairly definitive on the issue (Red Skull's listing in Acts of Vengeance is Shmidt). also omits the "c." As does the Marvel Directory. And, again, it's not JUST the current Handbooks that omit the "c." Mark Gruenwald was behind most of the original Handbooks. WHILE writing Captain America, in many (if not all) cases. To me, THAT'S definitive above all else. And Shmidt seems fairly common in the real world.
--GrnMarvl14 23:13, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
I agree that the handbooks are authoritative. If they weren't, we could stop doing our work alltogether, most likely. That still doesn't mean they make sense all the time: you're right, the spelling without the c exists in the real world, though you get about 200 times less hits than the spelling with the c on google. I just checked the online phone book for germany and I got 9 hits. schmidt gets me 10'000+, which sounds about right, since it's the german translation of smith. Again, I may be wrong, but as far as I remember, the c-less spelling is almost exclusive to russian and/or jewish families (it would be one of those family names forced onto jewish families in order to make them easily recognizable as jews). Now I'm not saying it's impossible (and in fact, it would be one hell of a weird character twist if the red skull was jewish), but it seems very, very unlikely. I can see how it would be weird (on priciple alone) to deviate from the OHOTMU - but we do deviate when it comes to reality numbers, with the explicit intention of getting our information into the handbooks at one point. Whatever decision we reach, we should put a brief synopsis concerning the confusion under "notes".--edkaufman 01:24, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
We really only deviate on reality numbers when there isn't an existing reality number they utilize. And, when it comes to names, shouldn't we defer to the official published sources? Especially when there's more than one that uses that name? I mean, barring a recent revelation, shouldn't we trust the official sources to be accurate? Should we really second-guess their spellings? I understand if the real name was only referenced twice, and misspelled one of those times. Then I'd be all for going with the common sense name (Schmidt, in this instance). Makes sense. But at what point are we just thinking we know better (than the official material)? I'm all for placing a note on the page to note what's more accurate in terms of "this is how the real world works." That's good information. That's solid. That's interesting (to a nerd like me, at least). But shouldn't our baseline be the official word (or spelling, in this case)? Though, if we keep it at Schmidt, we need to make sure to move Sin's page back.
--GrnMarvl14 02:46, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse, but:

How often is his name given in actual comic stories? I think just considering the OHOTMU type stuff is a bit limited. You only need one editor to miss something, and suddenly "Peter Parker" is "Petor Paker".

Roygbiv666 Sig 001.png 03:45, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

But it's not just one instance. Shmidt is in three Handbooks stretching across two of three decades. Sin's profile (his daughter) uses the Shmidt spelling. His listing in Acts of Vengeance uses Shmidt. In every instance in which his last name is mentioned in the Deluxe edition, it's Shmidt. For it to be repeated over several Handbook iterations would take more than one editor making the same mistake. More than one writer making the same mistake. Whereas the ONE Handbook with Schmidt...that COULD be attributed to an editorial mistake. Especially since it IS more accurate in the real world. Seem to vaguely recall another character whose name is commonly misspelled because it's NOT spelled the common way. Wish I could actually remember who it was, though.
--GrnMarvl14 20:27, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I wasn't clear. Aside from OHOTMU books, when the Skull's name appears in comics, do they spell it with a "c" or not? It is conceivable that each OHOTMU edition just copies over data from the last one. What is the preponderance of usage overall for the spelling of the Skull's real name?
Roygbiv666 Sig 001.png 23:21, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
The Twelve: Spearhead #1: "And if that wasn't enough, there's a good chance we are going to run into the Reich's highest ranking officer, obergruppenfuhrer Johann Shmidt." That work?
--GrnMarvl14 01:17, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
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