Should this Character page be renamed Adam Warlock (Earth-93112), as he is from an alternate future? Jacknapier10 (talk) 11:05, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
No. That's not that character. Maxam came from this reality and Magus was the ruler of that world. This character isn't from the future at all as can be read in Starlin's issues of "Strange Tales" and "Warlock" Vol. 1. Beast of Averoigne (talk) 14:42, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
Magus Split?
I didn't see any other discussions about this, so I'm wondering why all versions of the Magus are grouped together on one page? There are at least three distinct versions of the Magus covered here:
- (1) Adam Warlock's alternate future self, from Strange Tales
- (2) The evil aspect of Adam's soul, from Infinity War
- (3) Adam himself when he turned evil, from post-War of Kings
I suppose there's an argument that (3) is actually the return of (1), but even so (2) is a separate entity. And why are they listed under Earth-93112, Maxam's reality, when the first sighting of the Magus's future would've come from Strange Tales, back in the 70's?
Help? Monolith616 (talk) 22:04, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
Well, he shouldn't be listed under Maxam's Earth-Designation. Unless Marvel for some reason says that it should be so. I don't see enough reason for a split, though.
1. Warlock's future self though from the past. Which I guess makes him Earth-616. For those who don't know the story: Warlock was (or will be) transported to the distant past, became the Magus thus making Adam and his future version contemporaries in said story from Strange Tales. This future was more or less erased by the end of the arc.
2. The evil aspect which he got rid off when he held the Infinity Gauntlet and became a seperate being. This one could be getting his own entry. On the other hand is this part of Adam's soul probably the basis for him to become the first version of the Magus. So it's technically the same being.
3. Warlock reopened the way to his future to repair some of these fissures back in DnA's Guardians of the Galaxy. So I would agree, that this is the return of the first version of the Magus. However, Warlock becoming the Magus is very different than it has originally been and with the evil aspect gone from his soul an argument could be made that there shouldn't be a basis for Adam to become the Magus at all. Which might make this one, depending on your point of view, a second or third version of the character.
So, there are valid reasons for a split but also explanations for leaving it as just one entry.
He should be moved however to Earth-616 as there is no reason for any of the three to be from Maxam's reality with 1 originating from the past and the other two being from than current events like Infinity Gauntlet/War and the aftermath of Annihilation: Conquest.
Beast of Averoigne (talk) 07:36, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
The Appendix references Earth-7528, but I don't know if that's strictly the Magus's future. Assuming it is, then the Strange Tales Magus would be "Adam Warlock (Earth-7528)" since, even though he traveled into the past, the timeline division happened in the present/future first.
I suppose it comes down to whether any evil future version of Adam is the same Magus, or if there are different, particular versions of Magus.
1. There was a specific event involving the In-Betweener which was fated to turn Adam Warlock into Magus(1). That event did not occur, and Adam Warlock did not go insane, cocoon up, and travel back in time to become the Magus. So while Magus(1) may still exist as a possibility elsewhere in the multiverse, Adam Warlock-616 did not become Magus(1), even if he eventually became A Magus through other means.
2. Adam Warlock created the Magus(2) and the Goddess by banishing good and evil from his soul. This Magus was an incomplete being, as referenced several times in the Infinity things and Captain Marvel IV. He's like Deadpool and Evil Deadpool -- a fragment of Warlock that was cast off and became independent. The only way Magus(2) could be the same as Magus(1) is if the evil cast from Adam's soul was possessed or inhabited by the consciousness of the particular future version of Adam that was discontinued during Strange Tales, but that was never alluded to. I consider this an example of any evil version of Adam Warlock is going to be called the Magus, but not all evil versions of Adam are THE SAME Magus.
3. Adam Warlock-616 goes evil, becoming Magus(3). Is Magus(3) the same as Magus(1)? Well, Warlock becomes Magus(3) by altering timelines. He takes the current future where the Fault and the Cancerverse destroy everything and severs it, and in exchange attaches the loose strands of the Magus-future he aborted in Strange Tales as the new future, thus becoming Magus as he was originally meant to in that timeline. So does that make him Magus(1)? I honestly don't know -- it depends on how we measure it. Adam Warlock became the Magus in two different events, one in the 70's and one in the 00's. Two different events, two different timelines, two different Magni. But, in continuity, Adam used the 70's timeline to engineer his transformation in the 00's, so in theory he became THAT Magus, Magus(1), even though he was now doing it under different circumstances.
So, conclusion...I think Magus(2) should have his own entry. He's basically an evil clone of Adam who happens to look like an evil future Adam. Magus(2) is a distinct individual who technically still exists somewhere in the Marvel Universe simultaneously with Magus(3), and without involving any time travel.
I also think Magus(3) shouldn't be on this page, even if he and Magus(1) are technically the same entity. Magus(3) is Evil Present Adam Warlock while Magus(1) is Evil Future Adam Warlock. Magus(3) didn't go back in time and start the Universal Church of Truth, or confront Adam Warlock-616 during Strange Tales. Magus(1) did that. Even if Magus(3) is now fated to carry out the actions of Magus(1) seen in Strange Tales, he hasn't "yet". Magus(3) should just appear on Adam Warlock (Earth-616)'s page as a change in identity.
That's my break down of all this. Monolith616 (talk) 14:15, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
Good points. Quite honestly, I've never heard about Earth-7528 before. At first it didn't make any sense. Usually journeys to the past are set in Earth-616. Take for example the western guys like Two-Gun Kid. Furthermore Warlock and Magus met in Earth-616-Reality and it wouldn't make much sense, if Magus time in the past was in any other reality than 616. What would he do to meet 616's Warlock after all?! Switch universes at a certain point in time? I don't think so.
Than I remembered one thing: After erasing his immidiate future as the Magus no one remembered the Magus, the Church of Universal Truth or their atrocities but those directly involved during the change (Warlock, Pip, Thanos and possibly Gamora, I'd have to check on her). Warlock and Pip even payed a visit to the woman who was the Matriarch and watched her from some distance. She was a regular person. Even a prostitute if I remember correctly. Since a couple of people did remember the events prior to the change they did happen after all. Maybe buy cutting it out so to speak Warlock created Earth-7528-Reality. Which might have ended completely with the end of the Magus, who knows. I think the appendix is a bit vague as far as this reality is concerned and this might be an explanation.
I've noticed that Gamora is listed as a resident of the reality nowadays. I'm not sure, that this makes sense but it might've been established by Bendis. I really didn't like the book and skipped after ten issues. Tops. On the other hand did Thanos use time travel to bring her up. If he picked her up from some future and took her to his present it makes sense, that she is from another reality than 616. Which might constitute a good reason for Magus to be from that same reality. I wouldn't agree though and if Magus remembered slaughterin the Zen-Whoberi during Starlin's run on Strange Tales and Warlock he remembered it in 616-present. I would have to look it up however, if Magus mentioned anything about the Zen-Whoberi at all. I don't think so but it should possibly be checked out. They did say at one point after the Magus being erased, that it was the Badoon who destroyed the Zen-Whoberi. Some christmas story by Starlin from the early 90s.
Other than Warlock creating a new reality by erasing his immidiate future I don't think that the first Magus should be from another reality but 616. Just doesn't make sense.
I can see where you come from on Magus 2. Giving him his own entry is OK with me.
As far as Magus 3 is concerned: Given that Warlock was about to become the Magus during that story in the 70s I don't think that Magus 1 can still be considered a future version of Adam since he himself is beyond the time of his becoming the Magus. So Magus 3 is in that sense far more of a future version of Adam's than the original Magus as he came into existence years (decades in real time) after the first Magus would have been "born". If this makes 3 a seperate version from 1 is probably debateble but surely a possibility. It doesn't make much sense though to call 3 the present and 1 a future version since 3 came about long after one would have come if he wouldn't have been erased. If 1 and 3 are the same it possibly makes sense for ... him? his master? Order and Chaos? to find (him) a different way to come into existence since the original one was erased.
Time travel is a mess with Marvel. Goodness. Maybe it should just be one entry and we should stop thinking about stuff like this. :-D Anyway, I don't think there's an easy answer to that mess. Even Marvel had just one entry in the handbooks a couple of years ago, though. Dunno.
Beast of Averoigne (talk) 20:17, August 21, 2015 (UTC)