Talk:Marvel Team-Up Vol 1 55

Gems Identification

How can you be sure that the Gems featured in this issue were the Power Gem and the Reality Gem? Shouldn't the Gardener Gem be the Time Gem? Rorschach188 (talk) 16:37, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

Because of the Colors. The Gardener is wearing the red Gem which is the Power Gem, Stranger's wearing the yellow which is Reality. Keep in mind, that they were just the Soul Gems back than. Their functions weren't established until Thanos Quest Vol 1 years later. Back then nobody considered them as a devices to give someone power over mind, reality, space and what have you. Also the Gardener considered his Gem corrupted after the battle with the Stranger and gave it up. The Time Gem later taken from him by Thanos must've come to him after the events of this book. He even mentions, that he has used another Soul Gem before and allied himself with the Elders to get his hands on another one. Beast of Averoigne (talk) 18:25, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

Yet in Thanos Quest Vol 1 Thanos mentions the fact that the Gardner has always unconsciously used time powers to let his plants grow fast and that he has used the gem to froze them in time: "[Your plants] bloomed eternally because you froze the moment they reached the zenith of their beauty" So I was thinking: maybe the colors in Avengers Annual Vol 1 7 are simply wrong and the Gardener had the Time Gem all along Rorschach188 (talk) 19:26, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

There is a chance the colors were shuffled, as there's precedence with the Mind Gem, but we have an OHOTMU citation for that one. There's probably a similar OHOTMU source for these two that can be dug up. It really doesn't matter since as mentioned above, the non-soul Infinity Gems are effectively rebooted between the 70s and the 90s appearances. Gardener definitely isn't married to the Time Gem though, as he also uses Warlock's Soul Gem to do his plants thing in a couple Hulk issues a few years later (Incredible Hulk #248). RaijinK (talk) 21:13, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

Yes I think they didn't pay much attention to the colors until the gems were finally diversified, in Silver Surfer Vol 3 7 all the gems are coloured in red... Ok then, thank you for your answers. Rorschach188 (talk) 22:41, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

I'm looking at 2008's OHOTMU Vol.5 entry on the Infinity Gems, and it identifies the two in this story as Power (Stranger) and Time (Gardener), so maybe we do need to re-evaluate the evidence. It doesn't make the connection with the Mind Gem from another article though, so I'd like to check entries on Stranger and Gardener for contradictions before making any edits, which would affect the first appearances of the other gems as well.RaijinK (talk) 23:05, May 3, 2016 (UTC)

I don't recall Thanos saying anything about the Gardener always using Timey Wimey Stuff on his plants in T-Quest?! However. Marvunapp refers to the Time Gem for the Gardener in Team-up. According to them Stranger used the Power Gem:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/gardener_zyonz.htm

The Gardeners Handbook Entry (5 Issues Update Version from 2009 or something) concurs, that Gardener used the Time Gem and Stranger the Power Gem. Stranger's 2006-Entry just mentions Infinity Gems. Don't think I have one for the Gems themselvse.Beast of Averoigne (talk) 15:15, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, can't find any official source that contradicts this. Looks like SOMEONE (me) mistakenly identified the gems solely by color. Time to update some first appearances.RaijinK (talk) 17:44, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

I think I fixed all the references to Stranger's and Gardener's Gems between this issue and Avengers Annual 7, and just swapped Time for Reality as one of the two remaining Gems introduced in that issue. Should probably also find a source for which of those two was which now since I can't remember how I originally decided which one came from the prison satellite and which belonged to Xiambor.RaijinK (talk) 00:34, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

The exact sentence pronounced by Thanos in Thanos Quest was "you didn't consciously realize that was your jewel secret property. With it the stream of time can be reconstructed as easily as a child builds a sandcastle. Only your subconscious barely perceived the Gem potential. That was how you created your wondrous gardens. Your plants grew so rapidly because you raced them through their growth cycles and they bloomed eternally because you froze the moment they reached the zenith of their beauty [...] unfortunately without the gem's aid the garden beauty won't last". This led me to think he owned the Time Gem in this issue as well (even if it is certainly strange that he abandoned the gem for the sin of using it as a weapon when just a little later he will try to destroy Galactus and the universe with the other Elders using the Soul Gems combined)(Silver Surfer (Vol. 3) #9), yet we can be 100% sure that the gem he later used for his vegetation tricks against Hulk was Warlock's Soul Gem as RaijinK said, so it's not so obvious at all, but I believe the correct id for the gems is the one you just provided (y). Rorschach188 (talk) 09:59, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I know the book and looked it up before my original answer. Thanos is refering to the Gem the Gardener currently used, not necessarily to any ones he used before T-Quest. I'd say, that Gardeners comments could be interpreted that he is wearing another Gem than before. This could of course refer to the Soul Gem in those Issues of Hulk as well. Who knows. If the Handbooks say it's the Time Gem then it should be this one. We did some thorough research, I'd say. ;-) Beast of Averoigne (talk) 20:32, May 5, 2016 (UTC)