Talk:Max Eisenhardt (Earth-616)

Name Rank and Serial Number

Wasn't he born Erik Lensherr??? It's pretty hard to believe that his parents named him Magnus and he coincidentally got Magnetic powers. Plus, Magnus sounds WAY more like a name he'd rename himself with. How many people have you met named Magnus?Peteparker 21:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you brought that up since it has been bugging me as well. I always remember him being Erik Lehnsherr, after an easy "search" on Marvel.com, I see that they have him listed as "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr", I would assume that Magnus is his middle name in this case and he has assumed it. Like Robert Bruce Banner and we all know him as Bruce Banner. --M1shawhan 01:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Magnus Magnuson One of my favourite worldclass lifters. :)

I used to love watching World's Strongest Man competitions. :)

--Jamie 01:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it should be noted that his name is *not* Erik Lensherr. That was an alias (as exposed in X-Men v2... i don't recall the issue offhand). So as far as we know his name is Magnus with no revealed last name. --Squirrelloid 16:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

HA! Gotcha there Marvel.com...sheesh, you'd think that even Marvel would get it right, especially with their checks and balance system...hmmm. ;) --M1shawhan 00:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

So what are we saying? Marvel.com is right or wrong? Who can answer these questions for us?--Peteparker 14:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Marvel.com has been consistently saying that "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" is a false name. Check out the Magneto biography. It says "real named -- unrevealed." The editors there (the same guys as the OHOTMU editors) don't allow any edits that try to say "Erik Lehnsherr" is Magneto's real name. And it is not his real name. The issue where we learn that it is a forged name, given him by Georg Odekirk, is X-MEN #72. The name "Magnus" is another story. It does sound like a name he chose for himself. It's not known if this is his real name, or a part of his real name, or not.--Myst 15:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

According to New Avengers #20, his name is Eric Magnus Lehnsherr. It was read from magneto's journal. --BOB10011001 17:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

In NA #20, he's not writing a journal. He isn't sure what he's writing, he even considers it might be a "suicide note." In any case, he says, the name the human's gave him is, "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr." And indeed, Odekirk the forger chose that name for him. We don't know where "Magnus" comes from. "Magneto" itself is a name that he used as a handle when he worked as a double agent for Mossad and some Western intelligence agency. It's also a name that humans gave him, so when he says that his mutant name is Magneto, he's not being entirely honest. What he's writing is a document of some kind that he wants his enemies to find. He has gone to great lengths to keep his real name and family origin a secret for 40-some years, he's not going to reveal it in this document! "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" is his adopted name, the name the world knows him by. It is not his real name. It's like the name "Stalin" or "Lenin" or "Trotsky" or even the names that artists and actors take. (For example, Stan Lee.) But it's not Magneto's real name.--Myst 23:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Then by our Naming Conventions, the page's name should be 'Magneto (Eric Magnus Lehnsherr) (Earth-616)'. Any disagreements?

--Your Friendly Neighborhood Peteparker (talk • contribs • email) 19:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I would think so, but where did the whole "Magnus" thing originate in the comics themselves? Does anyone know WHERE he said or was told that Erik Lehnsherr is not his name. Cause what I've noticed when it comes to naming/continuity and such...Marvel may OWN the ideas but not always be 100% on the recalling of this info on their website. --M1shawhan 23:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The comic where it was revealed that "Erik Lehnsherr" is a false name, is X-MEN #72. As for the current Marvel.com website, it's as accurate as it's ever been, since the people running it are the same people who write the Official Handbooks of the Marvel Universe. Moreover, fans can send in corrections, but the monitors don't allow instant corrections. Rather, they check out the suggestions first. Magnus was the name that Magneto used when he was introduced to Xavier in UNCANNY X-MEN #161 (published in the early 1980s). In the Legion Quest story from the mid-1990s (prelude to the AOA), several X-Men travel back in time to stop Legion, and they all arrive in Israel about 20 to 25 years ago, Marvel Time, during the months when Xavier and Magnus first met. During these events, Xavier addresses Magneto as "Erik," as well as Magnus. Hence, the supposition that Magneto used the name "Erik Magnus" while he lived in Israel. As for the title of this article, if according to "naming convention" the current alias of a character is indicated in parentheses, then go for it.Myst 21:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Evil!

Why do they say he's evil?! Think about it! All he wanted to do was save mutants. In ways he was a hero!--User:MutantKingMagneto

Bio Edit

I've edited the Magneto bio. I added detail: for exapmle, Magnus' time in the Auschwitz Sonderkommando, or what happened to Magnus in Vinnitsa when Anya was killed, and Magnus' time as a double agent for the CIA and Mossad hunting Nazi war criminals.

Also, Magneto is Jewish. I know there are many people who don't like this, and repeatedly overlook the revelations of X-MEN #72, and all the other facts that show Magneto never was a gypsy, but was only pretending to be "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte" in order to search for his beloved wife Magda after she fled from him.

Please see these links for reference:

Magneto FAQ

Magneto Facts and Background Info

Magneto Timeline

(This timeline is detailed and referenced, but not complete after the events of Magneto Rex.)

--Myst, March 4, 2006--

Excalibur Vol. 2 #14 reaffirms that he was Jewish. The House of M lean towards his true name being Magnus. His mental powers are attributed to the training he underwent with Xavier, his willfulness, and subtle uses of his magnetic powers. Kokushishin 21:12, 4 March 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Magneto and Mossad from Classic X-Men #19

I have reread the comic book Classic X-Men #19, and I found it very interesting. My contributions to other biographies of Magneto, as well as Alara Roger's overview of Magneto's history, seemed fuzzy on this topic, so I wanted to clarify Magneto's activities at this time.

What I found is that the story, "I, Magneto," written by Claremont with art by Bolton did not actually mention WHICH intelligence agency Magneto was working for. The only fact we know is that Magneto was working for the Israeli government, and this is almost certainly as an agent of Mossad.

Magneto names the person he phones from Nazi Hans Richter's demolished fortress, "control." The man who murders Isabelle is identified only as "control" and Magneto's "case manager." The only agency we can really identify as being involved is Mossad, because Magneto makes the clear statement that he is turning his captured Nazis over to Israel for trial, and Mossad was/is the agency that was responsible for making contacts with agents and retrieving Nazi war criminals. (Their most notable case being that of Adolf Eichmann.) So, ironically, after all these years of thinking the CIA was definitely involved in this story, it's actually only confirmed that Mossad is involved! Thus, we are left to conjecture as to who Magneto's control was or controls were.

Another interesting thing is the way Magneto's "case manager" or "control" talks after Isabelle is murdered. He seems British. And indeed, if Magneto had been a citizen of Israel for a number of years, he could just as likely have turned to British intelligence -- MI5 which is military intelligence, or the SIS, or MI6 "The Firm" -- to provide him resources to help track escaped Nazi war criminals. In any case, I think Claremont left that deliberately unclear.

Also, Magneto apparently was "hot-dogging" it (Control -- "... but no ... you had to 'hot dog' it ... go haring off on your own") with this Western intelligence agency's full knowledge. Magneto answers, "That never mattered before." So, Magneto was turning Nazis over to Israel, knowing that his Western spy-masters knew about it, presuming that they didn't mind. Did Magneto presume that they were the good guys who wanted to avoid political complications but that they really were on the same page as Magneto, turning a blind eye as he gave his captured Nazis to Israel? If that was Magneto's presumption, he was very wrong, as he finds out

Magneto's control responds to Magneto's comment, "That never mattered before," with, "That was when you were sanctioning their Nazis. The other side's. Richter was one of ours. A very important asset. You made some waves with that caper, Magneto."

Magneto answers: " 'Ours?' 'Theirs!' What the devil are you talking about?! They're Nazis! War criminals!"

So, Magneto clearly was naive about the political realities. He believed that this intelligence agency he worked for was hunting Nazis for the same reasons he was, and was letting him turn these criminals over to Israel. He was very clearly (a) a double-agent for Mossad but this was not a secret to his control, and (b) Magneto knew they knew he was working for Israel, and didn't think they cared.

Magneto and Telepathy

I'm of the impression that the following is a gross overstatement of Magneto's abilities, and some of it was previously attributed to Magneto but later retconned (eg, Astral Projection).

I'm going to make appropriate changes unless there are objections backed up with citations of issues. Such changes will move 'powers' to abilities or items as appropriate, and will note powers he was once attributed as having but no longer is.

My comments are in italics. --Squirrelloid 01:14, 2 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Telepathy: Magneto has the ability to read minds (stated as a "scan of surface thought") and he has been able to fight off telepathic intrusions and attacks from the likes of Psylocke, Jean Grey, and even Professor Xavier through sheer force of will.

I'm not aware of any issue not written by Stan Lee in which Magneto scans surface thoughts. Given the last of those issues (written by Stan Lee) was UXM 19, he is arguably not considered to possess those powers in current continuity.

He is strong-willed, but that is hardly a power. That is the result of training. Note that the X-Men and the New Mutants both received similar training from Professor X, pointed out (among other places) in various issues of New Mutants. Such training should appear later in abilities. Also note that Magneto is no match for Professor X when Xavier means business - see Fatal Attractions.

In Magneto's case we also know that his helmet helps protect him from psionic assault.

• Astral Projection: Magneto can project his astral form from his body onto astral planes or the physical planes. In the physical plane he can only travel in astral form over short distances. In the astral plane, he can mentally create psionic objects and manipulate the aspects of his environment.

This is only used in UXM #6 as far as i know, and has almost certainly been retconned. The extent of powers claimed in the description certainly exceeds anything Magneto has ever been shown to do.

Update: Magneto has no "psionic talents" according to UXM 150, much more recent than any known (to me) reference to him having them. Someone capable of doing so might update the page accordingly. --Squirrelloid 06:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I looked at it again, and it does say his "mutant brain" can use astral projection. I'll update it koku 00:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Magneto and Lorna Dane

Lorna Dane is NOT actually related to Magneto. The claim is made by a robot masquerading as Magneto, never by Magneto himself, and disproved (UXM 52 iirc) by the X-Men shortly after it is made. --Squirrelloid 22:25, 5 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

That was later retconned during the Chuck Austen run on "Uncanny X-Men" (she was also a member of the "House of M" royal family.) --CaptainCanada 09:42, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Hey CaptainCanada! Welcome!

As far as the Chuck Austen retcon goes, do you happen to have an issue #?

Based on the 'official website', they indicate she is indeed his daughter...

If anyone has the appropriate OHotMU book handy, that might be another way to verify.

--Jamie 09:57, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

In Uncanny X-Men #52, Bobby discovers proof that "Magneto"'s claim isn't true. The fact that its not even Magneto that makes the claim, but a robot of him controlled by Mesmero, makes it even more suspicious. You can't retcon her not being his daughter without retconning her also being claimed as his daughter in the first place - its all the same storyline! She also has an otherwise appropriate backstory (see, for instance, the blurb on the Polaris page, about her family getting killed in a plane accident).

Having reviewed the official site, it sounds like the new "she's Magneto's daughter" schtick is probably subject to retcon whenever someone gets around to it. I mean, it happened "off-camera" from the website description of it, and its clearly destabilized her, meaning it could have been used as a weapon. I wouldn't be surprised it was a bald-faced lie by some enemy. I would prefer a more agnostic commitment on the matter for the website, since the truth is hardly self-evident. --Squirrelloid 10:34, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

The pertinent issue number for the Polaris/Magneto reveal is Uncanny X-Men #431 (the subplot concerning it runs through the whole of the "Draco" story arc). Basically, post-"Eve of Destruction," when she stayed on Genosha with Magneto, she did a DNA test and it was positive. She left to go look at the evidence of the plane crash that killed her mother, the wreckage of the plane having been heavily magnetized (no further explanation has ever been provided as to exactly what happened, but given the anti-Magneto bent of the Morrison-era, the implication is Magneto killed her), and then went back to Genosha to confront Magneto, only to be greeted like royalty by all the residents (Polaris speculated that Magneto had found out about her investigation, and told others about it). Then the Sentinels arrived, Polaris went crazy after all the slaughter, and eventually was found by the X-Men. Marvel's been treating her as Magneto's daughter ever since, including, as I mentioned before, her being one of Magneto's royal children in "House of M," and saying as much on the official site. Likewise, saying that something "is shortly to be retconned" doesn't seem like a good rationale for including or excluding information, since anything is potentially subject to retcon, and the current status quo is that she is (the various characters that are currently dead don't have articles ignoring that based on the idea that their deaths are shortly to be reversed).--CaptainCanada 17:05, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Sorry, I meant to imply could be retconned at any moment (or revealed to be misinformation), not would be. The plane being magnetized is hardly conclusive that Magneto is her father regardless - that just suggests that Magneto might have been involved in her death (And Magneto is not the only way things get magnetized). Further, the rest of the incidents are entirely based on perception (eg, Wanda's that Lorna is being treated as her sister, regardless of the reality - i mean, in the House of M universe, maybe Lorna is her half-sister, but Wanda alters the very fabric of reality with her power, so anyone could be cast as her sister, half-sister, or whatever), or possibly on someone's desire to influence her perception (Magneto having the guards treat her as royalty). None of that strikes me as conclusive, whereas the Iceman has an honest-to-god birth certificate in hand (or the moral equivalent) in Uncanny 52. I will confess I haven't followed the comic after Onslaught, but issue 52 is pretty conclusive on the matter.

As to the paternity test: i think the odds of a false positive are 1/100,000, which is actually pretty good all things considered. Not to mention possible tampering with the testing, including Magneto's potential direct involvement. Oh, and the known tampering that has occurred with Magneto's DNA (by Moira MacTaggert, while he was a child - that alone should make a paternity test useless in establishing Magneto as anyone's father). Additionally, I'm really confused as to Lorna being related to Magneto on other grounds - he's very obviously Jewish, and she... isn't. At all. Not even slightly. Magneto also never mentions her (Lorna's) mother, which given the 'screen time' his wife (Magda) and his girlfriend (Isabelle) received, strikes me as rather suspicious. --Squirrelloid 18:52, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Well, you both make good points, but we all know how 'consistent' Marvel is with the universe. I say, the best way to decide this is to contact an editor at Marvel. I think Jeff Youngquist and/or Tom Brevoort could make the call. Anyone up for it?

--Jamie 19:23, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

e-mail sent to the ohotmu address listed in the marvel website FAQ. We'll see what kind of reply i get. (Note, the last edit was me adding CaptainCanada's issue citation to the origin, no reversion to an earlier state occurred. You can probably unlock the page). --Squirrelloid 21:36, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Regarding the birth certificate thing, Austen didn't go into it in any great detail (it's not a well-written story at all, although nothing with to Polaris even comes close to what happens to Nightcrawler in the same pages), but the idea is that Magneto had an affair with Lorna's mom while she was married to someone else (the guy whose name is on the birth certificate). It doesn't mesh with everything, to be sure, but, then, few retcons do.--CaptainCanada 23:47, 6 November 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

No response ever received to my e-mail. If anyone has or knows where to find the e-mail for specific marvel editors to ask directly, I'd be happy to write such an e-mail, but i can't find their e-mails listed anywhere (and probably with good reason).

Sorry about that... Our email addresses can be found here.

--Jamie 03:02, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Not marveldatabase.com e-mails, marvel editor/whatever e-mails to try to get an official answer. --Squirrelloid 06:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Magneto's aliases

It lists Erik the Red as an alias, but no such usage occurs in the history. (The only time Erik the Red comes up is when the Shi'ar agent of that name returns him to adulthood). I also recall no time during which Magneto used Erik the Red as an alias (though my knowledge runs through ~Onslaught). I think its being listed is likely an error. Can we remove it? (page is still locked...).

He used the Erik the Red guise in Uncanny X-Men #350 IIRC.koku 11:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Mind updating the history to reflect that then? I mean, things in the summary should be verifiable by reading the history. --Squirrelloid 15:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Great questions!

If you want to chat about him more, you can always try posting on the forums too!

Cheers!

--Jamie 04:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Magneto Took Wanda in HoM?

I thought that was Quicksilver, and the writer made is seem as if it was Magneto. In fact for what Pietro did, Magneto almost killed him. -- MutantKingMagneto