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  • Hey, this is something that has been bothering me for awhile, but I wanted to wait a while and give editors the chance to see Captain America: Civil War first. And this totally failed when I asked an admin for help, so here's hoping most of you have seen the movie, because I like the way the Quicksilver debate was handled.

    SPOILER ALERT FOR THE MOVIE

    Anyways, I have questions 1) who are "The Avengers" post-Civil War (Some people say they're disbanded, some people say #TeamIronMan members who are still in Avengers HQ, I think we should have a site consensus) and 2) if Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Black Panther, and Spider-Man were recruited as "Avengers" in the film (because it's basically the same thing that happened with Quicksilver (helped fight a battle; wasn't officially recruited).

    Anyways, yeah, I think this will clear up a few pages (like the Avengers members page, Affiliation section of said characters, people listed under Avengers in Characters section of Captain America: Civil War, Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Infinity War - Part II, etc). I wanted to have a discussion first so that no (civil) edit wars will happen.

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    • For me it's pretty clear that the group disbanded. The Avengers couldn't go on with only two members (I'm not counting Rhodes as he was incapacitated), and there's no indication Cap created a new Avengers group (or reformed the original one with new members) after he broke the others out of the Raft.

      Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Black Panther and Spider-Man were not recruited into the Avengers. T'Challa was only there to avenge his father, Bucky was being hunted, the others on Cap's side were trying to help him, and Spider-Man and Ant-Man were only helping Tony and Steve, respectively. They were not invited to the team in any moment.

      We'll probably only see the Avengers in the Infinity War now, be it a new team or whatever. For now, the actual status of the team is disbanded, at least until its proven wrong in any of the other upcoming movies.

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    • Yeah that is how I see it, they disbanded and will be remade in Infinity War probably.

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    • Iron Man, Vision and War Machine. They're the only ones who signed the accords to begin with.

      Natasha signed them, too. But she betrayed the Avengers by helping Cap and Bucky. And it's implied that by the end of the movie, she's gone underground like the entirety of Cap's team.

      Spider-Man was only in the final battle, Black Panther signed nothing, and all of Team Cap is underground, and presumably in Wakanda with Bucky.

      And then Thor and Hulk are in space, and Quicksilver's in the ground.

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    • I see it as they disbanded, a new unnamed "Secret Avengers" team has formed, comprised of the people Cap rescued at the end, but that's my head canon until the next time they all appear. Probably revealed, at least in passing, in either Black Panther or Ant Man and the Wasp.

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    • As far as I am concerned, there is no current Avengers team at the end of Civil War. Seems like the easiest and most likely scenario.

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    • I also think that the Avengers was disbands. But Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Ant-Man and Spider-Man has to be incluided on allies?

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    • Okay, so far, the results are:

      Avengers Disbanded: Hulkohpile, SunGodKizaru, Copeinator123, Spencerz, Bobby stronda (5)

      Iron Man, Vision, War Machine are Avengers: Edward Zachary Sunrose (1)

      and no argument has been made that Winter Soldier, Black Panther, and Spider-Man should be considered as Avengers.

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    • I've seen a trend akin to the comics here: We have the original Avengers until Age of Ultron, and then they become the "Kooky Quarter" plus Cap and Widow. Civil War split them up as the New Avengers (Cap) and the Mighty Avengers (Iron Man). Now, here is what I think: Spidey went home, and it seems like he's a Reserve Avenger. Black Widow and Black Panther both expressed interest in helping Cap if they have the chance. War Machine is, as someone here said earlier, "incapacitated". Iron Man realized he was kind of wrong, so I doubt he would be an Avenger. I guess that leaves Vision, but because he is the only one, I think he can now be seen as a Reserve member as well. So the "Mighty Avengers" are Disbanded yes.

      The Secret Avengers are probably good, but with some changes. Bucky is in stasis. Black Panther will stay in Wakanda. But Cap, Falcon and Redwing, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Giant-Man, Agent 13, and Black Widow have no reason not to be the Secret Avengers.

      So basically, I side with the Avengers Disassembled side if we are referring to the official, globally-sanctioned Avengers, but I would like to also add an opinion of Cap's resistance still existing. That I agree with.

      And as I said, Spidey could be considered a "Reserve Avenger" with Vision, and technically Bucky and Black Panther could be as well on Cap's team. I think Black Panther was considered an Avenger in the airport scene, same with Bucky on Cap's team. But now both of them are Reserves for Cap.

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    • Hulkophile wrote: Okay, so far, the results are:

      Avengers Disbanded: Hulkohpile, SunGodKizaru, Copeinator123, Spencerz, Bobby stronda (5)

      Iron Man, Vision, War Machine are Avengers: Edward Zachary Sunrose (1)

      and no argument has been made that Winter Soldier, Black Panther, and Spider-Man should be considered as Avengers.

      They're definitely Avengers IMO. They participated in a battle that had only Avengers. At the very least, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Black Panther and Winter Soldier should be considered honorary Avengers like Quicksilver is.

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    • They're only disbanded in a literal interpretation of word, i.e. not banded together as a single, cohesive fighting force at the moment.

      One thing that bothers me about how the Marvel Database tends to portray data is there is apparently a desire to make information fit into a tight bracket established around how comic books have sometimes presented content. In this case, people here are treating a fluid group of people with no fixed membership as a fixed member group, and to make that work there is then the need to claim that members are frequently joining and leaving.

      And this is just the latest in a series of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole episodes around here.

      So...

      Avengers
      • Tony Stark
      • Steve Rogers
      • Bruce Banner
      • Natasha Romanoff
      • Clint Barton
      • Thor
      • Vision
      • Wanda Maximoff
      • Sam Wilson
      • James Rhodes

      The current status is somewhat fractured with part of the team being fugitives, two (maybe three) people ready to assemble (but we know the fugitives will join them when the world has need of them), and a couple of them out of contact. So while they are a recognisable group, they're not a "team" as of the end of Civil War.

      In summary, it's a fluid group with a dynamic membership, and therefore cannot be disbanded while parts of that membership are banded together, at least until everyone agrees to go their separate ways and not be Avengers any more. They don't have to have a set number at a particular base of operations to be Avengers - that's always been the nature of this group (even in the comics) and why the catch cry is "Avengers assemble!"

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    • I also agree that they disbanded. It seems that Cap may have a kind of secret team with all the remaining anti-accords heroes (Falcon, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Ant-Man), but I certainly wouldn't call them the Avengers. And Tony never rejoined the Avengers from his departure at the end of AoU, Hulk is in space (or something), Black Widow may be on the run, or maybe not, but definitely isn't on a team, Thor's in Asgard, Vision may still be living at the Avengers compound, but probably only to maintain it, and Rhodey's disabled and it doesn't seem he will return to being War Machine any time soon. I also agree that Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Black Panther and Winter Soldier never joined to begin with.

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    • No one read my thing tho...

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    • Ben 1,000,911 wrote: No one read my thing tho...

      Should we count you as a Yes or No for disbandment? (you had some conflicting opinions in your post)

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    • Hufflepuffgirl28 wrote:

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: No one read my thing tho...

      Should we count you as a Yes or No for disbandment? (you had some conflicting opinions in your post)

      You can say yes for Disassembled, but can there be a third option about Cap's Secret Avengers existing?

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    • Thanks, Hulkophile, for keeping track of the results. Updated results are:
      Avengers Disbanded: Hulkophile, SunGodKizaru, Copeinator123, Spencerz, Bobby stronda, Hufflepuffgirl28, The Many-Angled One (7)
      Not Disbanded (in some sense, we can determine exactly how later): Edward Zachary Sunrose, Ben 1,000,911, WarBlade (3)

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    • Ben 1,000,911 wrote:

      Hufflepuffgirl28 wrote:

      Ben 1,000,911 wrote: No one read my thing tho...

      Should we count you as a Yes or No for disbandment? (you had some conflicting opinions in your post)

      You can say yes for Disassembled, but can there be a third option about Cap's Secret Avengers existing?

      I put you down for Not Disbanded, in some sense. Is that accurate? (you can't vote for both yes and no)

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    • Alright sure, I guess.

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    • Thanks for updating!

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    • You forgot about me. I'm pro-disbanded.

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    • The Many-Angled One wrote: You forgot about me. I'm pro-disbanded.

      Oops! added you

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    • Is it safe to say the majority has the votes or would you like more votes/perspectives?

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    • There's no official policy we are supposed to follow about how long threads are supposed to be open for before consensus is assumed to be reached, but I would wait maybe one more week just to see. There does seem to be a general trend towards the "no more Avengers" side, and the Avengers (Earth-199999) page currently reflects that opinion, however.

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    • Hufflepuffgirl28 wrote: Thanks, Hulkophile, for keeping track of the results. Updated results are:
      Avengers Disbanded: Hulkophile, SunGodKizaru, Copeinator123, Spencerz, Bobby stronda, Hufflepuffgirl28, The Many-Angled One (7)
      Not Disbanded (in some sense, we can determine exactly how later): Edward Zachary Sunrose, Ben 1,000,911, WarBlade (3)

      Okay, so that's 7 for disbanded.

      Edward Zachary Sunrose says Iron Man, War Machine and Vision are still Avengers. Ben 1,000,911 thinks Avengers are disbanded, but #TeamCap is still a group that is not unlike the Secret Avengers from the comics. And WarBlade thinks that the fluid nature of the team doesn't fit with the whole "Disbanded" category in the first place, but they are definitely "disassembled" ready to be called again for the next catastrophe.

      Also, the consensus on whether Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man are Avengers or not leans towards them being NOT Avengers. Others are saying they should be "Reserve Avengers" 'like Quicksilver", so that falls under the Allies category.

      This cool?

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    • Sounds good! (it doesn't look like any pages need to be amended to reflect this decision, but if anyone comes across any, go ahead)

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    • Yeah, this mostly became just a thread to link back to if anyone starts edit wars, but thanks!

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    • Okay one thing is:
      I'm not sure if Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man should be considered allies of the Avengers because they never fought alongside the actual Avengers team, only the splintered ones during Civil War (that weren't called Avengers teams). I'd more say that Spider-Man is Iron Man's ally, and Winter Soldier and Ant-Man are Captain America's allies. I'm not sure where to put Black Panther given the situation by the end of the film, maybe Formerly Iron Man's ally?

      Also, Zemo should not be considered an Avengers villain because the team never fought against him, only Cap, Winter Soldier, and Iron Man did. (and Winter Soldier isn't even an Avenger)

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    • Okay, I agree with those.

      Black Panther shouldn't be tied to either Cap or Iron Man, because he's really only serving himself. (To him, helping Iron Man was only to get revenge on the Winter Soldier and helping Cap is only so that he can make things right morally).

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    • Hufflepuffgirl28 wrote: Also, Zemo should not be considered an Avengers villain because the team never fought against him, only Cap, Winter Soldier, and Iron Man did. (and Winter Soldier isn't even an Avenger)

      Disagree: He specifically set out to dismantle the Avengers team, and even though he only came into direct conflict with several of them, his machinations resulted in his asset (Rumlow) coming into conflict with several more, as well as turning a number of Avengers into pawns in his game. He set out to destroy the team by turning them on one another, and that makes him their enemy.

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    • While I agree that Zemo should be listed as an enemy of the Avengers because his plan specifically targeted them, there's no evidence that Rumlow worked for him. Neither was he directly responsible for the Avengers coming to blows with each other in the tarmac battle.

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